i would love to see rugal from cvs2 again
Itās not just about doing the pretzel. Itās about being able to do the pretzel reliably in a combo(and thatās just offline, imagine online).
are you being stupid on purpose?
like i said itās called practice, now i cant do it reliably generally because i next to never use geese but if you want to do it then work toward it
I practice plenty. Pretzel Motions are fucking stupid.
Thereās a difference betwen intentionally hard and unnecessarily hard. The move itself does not warrant that motion.
I just anti-air pretzel on reaction and feel myself. Then I look at Rock and realize he has the exact same super but itās qcfx2 and Iām like āaight.ā Pretzels donāt need to be a thing, and itās only for my conceited self-gratification that I like them.
Yeah, Pretzel Motions donāt serve any actual meritā¦at all. Like Laban said, Rock has Raging Storm as a normal Double QCF motion and no one bats an eye at it. Raging Storm isnāt powerful enough to warrant such a wonky motion and he doesnāt get any inherent advantages from such a motion compared to other unique Super Commands.
Does hcbx3 work for pretzel motions in KOF like it did in CVS2? Less swaying your hand back and forth with hcbx3. Just scoop 3 times and it comes out.
you can calm down. i barely know any of these characters
When it comes to Raising Stormā¦ Why even combo into it? Itās a slightly-harder-than-normal anti-air move. Why not combo into Deadly Rave instead? It sucks to have 1 move do everything.
For AA, I find Raising Storm about as easy to do as a Power Geyser. A good command normal also makes more complicated motions easier to combo into, if you must.
I believe it was a GAMEST article that mentioned that they were once going to change Raising Storm, but japanese fans love the pretzel so much, that they demanded it kept.
I understand the desire for easier motions at times (really convoluted ones donāt really need to exist anymore), and Garou did happen, so itās not impossible to SNKP to have simplified motions. But Raising is about as iconic to many SNK players as Raging Demon is to SF players. Iād like to keep the motion simple on Rock, and the damage lower, but keep the motion harder on Geese, and make it a stronger move.
KoFās the kinda game that has enough characters to where it can make a āversionā of a character for those who like the old ways, and one for those who like the newer.
Yup, honestly I think SNK just keeps the motion around because of nostalgia. K9999/Nameless had 2 pretzels so it doesnāt seem like itāll be going away anytime soon.
I figured the Raging Demon would come up.
You know the difference between Raging Demon and Raging Storm? The SGS Input actually has positive applications. A Pretzel Motion does not.
Thereās a difference between functional difficulty and empty difficulty. Most inputs are functional difficulty. They either have ease of use, or are hard because the move is strong but still maintain some value out of the input it has. The Raging Storm is Empty Difficulty. It isnāt particularly that noteworthy of a move otherwise, a strong AA but nothing worth the motion given to it. Itās also exceptionally out of place in a series that places a lot of value in the flow of inputs. Where every direction and button you press matters even for combos and a lot of things flow naturally into each other.
Most of us could do the Raging Storm well enough, but that doesnāt make it any less of an unnecessary input.
Iām of the opinion that the pretzel motion is nowhere near as hard as mythology would lead people to believe even more so in games like 98 where the input was made lenient as all hell and people just suck at buffering, which is understandable and KoF is a game practically built and designed around buffers so if you lack in this area you will be especially stunted. That being said even though I have no attachment to that input and if it goes Iām not going to complain. I donāt care one way or the other.
The āshort cutā is hcbx2 df. + button. So yeah, crank two hcbs then a df. then you got it. Itās just quicker for me to do pretzel in itself now since I am pretty accurate with my db hcb df. now. I used the short cut when doing Namelessā MAX Mode combo in 02um where you cancel the last DP into a pretzel.
I addressed all that. The problem is youāre viewing that Pretzel as being much harder and impractical than it actually is.
Still, I also proposed that itās difficulty be rewarded by a raise in powerā¦ and that a character like Rock, who shares a simplified version of the move, be available for a simplier motion that fits your perceived usefulness and strength of the move.
What youāre suggesting is āExceptionally out of placeā isnāt either, quite the opposite really. KoF is a game that has characters who keep a lot of legacy inputs because they were used as such in their original games, and fans like them. They even bring back things like Robertās wall jump command from AoF 1 in KoF XIII, the difference between Ryo and Roberts motions, Maryās EX form having Real Bout inspired commands and attacks, and even Gai in KoF XI had motions inspired by Buriki One.
Because KoF generally has so many characters that cover similar Rush / Zone / Grappler themes, the game keeps characters fresh / unique by inserting property and motion variance into them, normally based off their games of origin / notoriety for āclassicā characters.
For CVS2 (and KOF98), when I play Geese, I just input hcbx2 df+P for the Raging Storm. It is a tad easier that the actual pretzel command.
If Geese should be in KOFXIV, I wonder what variation of the Raging Storm he hasā¦ in fact, I wonder what his move set will consist of this time around. Body Blows, Reppuken/Double Reppuken(Wind Rip), Shippuken, Jaei Ken (Demonā¦ something), Deadly Rave, and the infamous Raging Storm are necessary. With all of that in mind, wonder if Geese is getting some new moves altogether.
Iām not viewing as that at all. I can do the Pretzel consistently now because I got bored one day and hammered it out. Iād still need a bit of work to do it on reaction AA but as I rarely play Geese itād be irrelevant of me to do so.
But fine, I can see Iām outnumbered here so Iām willing to take the L here and say Iām wrong.
*K9999 player here with shit execution by most standards, and pretzel motions isnāt bad. KOF buffer window is big as hell, just slow down your motion inputs. Donāt be in a rush to crank them out and instead focus on making clean motions. I think itās too easy to fall into the pit trap in game of āI have only x amount of frames to execute thisā which can flub up the precision of your inputs. The motion itself isnāt any harder than a QCF, HCB ranbu motion but because of the lack of familiarity with the motion adds artificial difficulty to it. Like oldschool tiger knee motion. *
The input is hard enough in KOF games IMO. I canāt do combos or even specials reliably, if only it had ST or 3s input.
Anyways anyone wanna play KOF98 or SFV.
Well, you made it sounds like it has no practical reason to be the way it is, and like itās just arbitrarily hard, which many of SNKās old motions are. But there is practicality in it. For one, Geese has specials on almost every other motion, traditionally. Second, Itās only 1 or 2 direction inputs away from Jaei-ken, one of the best linking specials for Geese to super cancel out of (for games that allow it), His HCB,F command throw, and his HCB counters.
I actually spent a lot more time hammering out the Raging Demon, ironically enough. Back during Alpha 2 on Saturn. Due to that, when a friend of mind was having so many issues getting it to work on SFEX trials, he called me over, and I did it on the first try. He just stared at me in an absolutely mad way, and the event still comes up between us to this day, ha.
I think after practicing Art of Fighting on SNESās port, I generally had very little issue with modern SNK motions. I totally agree thereās a lot of stuff in Fatal Fury 2-era SNK releases that should be purged and shifted to fit modern game controlsā¦ But the Pretzel is one of those things alongside the Ryuko Ranbu, Power Geyser, and Zanretsuken that are basically SNKās DP, Raging Demon and Hadouken. No need to add such motions to new characters frequently, but keep them around on my legacies, whoāse life extends beyond the bounds of KoF. Heck, I wish KI would add a few SNK motions to one of their characters, if just so it could have someone with that flavor.