karate man is basically dan fused with akuma. if only he had air gohados
I think the easiest character to learn is Vice by far. Her execution is so simple and any AA leads to ex whip. Her command grab is instant and has pretty good range too. I am confident in my Vice play even though I don’t play her as much as my mains at all. How do you even fight against her?
and I think Mr. Karate is definitely top tier…great defense (invincible DP, 2C, close D, ex ranbu, fireball) and great offense as well as air control (j. CD, ex command grab, a free counter to projectiles, etc) I cannot say that he is definitely the best character but he should be considered in the top 5 imo.
Dropped Mr. K for Duo Lon.
He’s a blast.
His teleports remind me of Ibuki (my old SSF4 main). 
I dunno I don’t find Vice’s neutral game that easy to use but that is possibly just because her archtype just doesn’t click for me like others. I hate her jump arcs a lot. Sure all her combos are pretty short and easy but I think you need to get a good sense of spacing with her along with some pretty decent mind games to really effectively use her unlike a lot of characters with more obvious tools. I could be wrong though maybe after a little more time playing her I will think she is really easy. Maybe hard isn’t the word I should use, “awkward” might be better.
Also Daimon seems really strong in this game. I was playing random this weekend while I was drinking and got him a few times and that close st. D or C?? (the one where he lifts his leg up really quickly) shuts down so much shit lol. I would literally just try and get close and spam that over and over and people didn’t adapt. What other stuff makes Daimon scary? I am going to hop in the lab with him pretty soon but a couple tips of things i should practice would be great.
Fighting against Vice? I’d say alternate guard, safe jump, and trip guard an expected shorthop CD from her. I have knowledge on the matchup pretty well. She’s good, but if you block her right and don’t let her CD, she can get blown up rather quickly. Then again, in KOF13 any character can get blown up lol.
As for Mr. Karate, he is indeed top 8 if not top 3. He has good options, but he can be safe jumped, even if he DP+C then AB, he can still be punished. As for his projectile counter, the only good one I think is the ex version aka death from above. The normal version can be frame trapped if you time it right, or just use a move with a lot of invincibility like Joe’s Tiger Kick. You have to train the other player to respect your range when you are zoning him, once you do that. I don’t think you have to worry about him destroying your face after the projectile counter because he’d be like “Oh shit, he’s gonna DP I better be careful.”
My S tier are would definitely include Karate along with flames kyo and benimaru though.
vice has answers to all those counters you mentioned though! aside from easy CD hitconfirming, she has a great 2b that she can hitconfirm, overhead, instant command grab which means u can just empty hop and they can’t alternate guard, her ex command grab has great range, her jump C looks like her CD and if the player knows you’re trying to tripguard…gg honestly i learned this character in like 2 hours…however I agree her neutral game does have to be practiced.
As for Mr. Karate, ex stomp counter is mega unsafe! the thing about his normal counter is that there is really no definitive counter once he gets in your face because of his 50/50 invulnerable uppercut. Good Mr. Karate players will also know when to use it, it’s not like he has to be approaching 100% of the time. Want to throw a shitload of safe fireballs at him? Cool he just gains meter and then EX ranbus you and you have to wait 7 seconds!!
@NissanZaxima, aside from his 5D which brought you so much enjoyment, 5B, j. CD, j. D, and j. C are all amazing normals that daimon has…he is a wall of quick, giant hitboxes, and you know…his grabs are great, his EX ground pound is also stupid fast, and if you’re close enough, its an overhead…there is more but i’m sure you will discover it yourself
So I know they are completely different characters with different purposes and styles, but is Saiki really an easier and better version of Ash? It sure as shit seems so besides the fact that Ash has a keepaway game.
How do you get success out of Ash besides baiting people into flash kicks and throwing fireballs? His back forward charge kick seems fucking useless but I’m pretty sure that’s because IDK how to use it. Is it only useful in combos when you don’t have to do the charge?
They are pretty different…Saiki’s fireball has a lot more recovery. I think ash has more consistent anti air and better zoning tools. However Saiki has a lot of tools at her disposal like a real command grab and a great reversal super. She also does A LOT of damage in the corner (HD mode and 2 bars = 100%).
yeah that charge move is really unsafe but it allows for a lot of juggles in combos. Try pressuring with 2B, her sobat kicks, and hop A or D if they’re not responding to your zoning (or if you have them cornered).
haha i accidentally referred to them both as females…i dont even care
Easier said than done with Vice, if I know to alternate guard you. I’ll look for the empty hops, and I can dp her shorthops anyway lol. Like I said, you can rush her and safejump to where she can’t grab you and force her to wakeup ex shoulder, which has startup so it can be baited. Like half the cast, you rush Vice down, when she tries to get in alternate guard her. Not to mention her command grab does good damage, however I’d take it over her BnB combos at do 298 and over anyday. You try it again I’ll make sure to blow you up.
Mr K’s counter is hard to predict to a certain extent. Like, if you get him off of you with let’s say a guard cancel attack. Let’s say you have Joe. You do a L hurricane upper then throw out a 2B, if he counters the hurricane, you are safe from a DP. Not to mention you can backdash. If he jumps the hurricane, ex DP his ass and if he tries to j.CD, your dp will win and does 296 if a counter from Joe.
How to be good with Ash? Dedicate time to the character and it will payoff. If you don’t put time in with Ash, Saiki is overall better and easier to use. Not to mention he has a command grab super. I’d say Ash is the better zoner, but in terms of overall damage, Saiki takes it. Ash is like a “come at me bro, but if you fuck up so help you god” type character. Saiki is like “come at me bro, or I’ll come at you it doesnt matter” type lol.
Wow, you must be really good if you can play that perfectly lol
do you have the tools to make videos to show some options vs. mr karate’s dash counter? i’m very interested
Bro its not that I play perfect, you just have to stay on your toes. I played some good Vices and she can be a hassle if you’re not careful. Like I said, all of it is easier said than done on both sides as playing as/against Vice. The more you play against her the more accustomed to her you become. I’ve played Vice a LOT lol. However, Clark is fucking dumb.
As for Mr.K’s counter, I’m not 100% sure if you can punish it, I usually try to frame trap it, grab it, or backdash it and they usually work out well. I really want to see if I can DP it raw but that can be really risky. I’ll go in the lab and see whats up.
Speaking of Clark, I hate him so much with Claw Iori. I have no options against L SABB but shorthop which can be difficult. You can only alternate guard for so long until your meter is red. I don’t have issues with him when I have Kim, Hwa, or Kyo. But when I have Claw Iori or Shen? Those matchups have to be 7-3 and 6-4 respectively in Clark’s fav.
Couldn’t Vice empty jump cr. b if she knows you are going to alternate guard her a lot? Don’t lows blow up alternate guarding? (I could be mistaken I just learned about the technique recently).
It’s rock paper scissors i swear lol. Trip guard beat empty hops and whiffed air attacks, but if I didnt trip guard her and she did empty hop 2B, I would lose if I held up too late. On the other hand, if I guarded low, I could have gotten command grabbed. In situations like this, you can get blown up or have a successful block and this situation would put me at the edge of my seat. If I got the block and I was in the corner, I would have Guard rolled. It just depends on the player, once you get the feel of the player, you’ll know what he/she may do, regardless you need to be ready to counter at all times ya know? If the Vice player knows I will alternate guard a lot, then I should expect a lot of empty jumps, but the trick about this is you dont want to keep doing that because like i stated above. Empty jumps lose to trip guard and they also lose to normal grabs/s.C/s.D/very fast anti air’s like Kim’s EX flash kick. Then it all goes back to the player again. Some Vice players dont grab as much as others and go for the empty hop 2B’s while others go for the hop/grab. Hopefully, in a set you will learn that person’s habits but sometimes you can learn them too late.
And lows can beat alternate guard if the opponent guards too late. You can alternate guard fast enough so you won’t get hit by a low. And you are on the right track too. I found out about a month ago that lows have the possibility break alternate guard, but the thing is I play shen lol. So I cant get anything off of my low unless I go HD. It is a way to alternate guard fast enough to the point that it will be lows, but it can be beat my a shorthop attack if the attack is low enough; an instant overhead if you may. Speaking of which, are there any characters on the game with an instant overhead and command grab?
What’s a good starting character for someone completely new to the KOF series?
I was looking at those pictures and decided I wouldn’t really think about them too much. But so help me if I get use Heidern again. Also at the risk of sounding like a scrub, What’s alternate guard and trip guard?
Alternate guard is switching between high and low block quickly to stay in blockstun longer, the idea behind this is that it beats throws coz you cant get grabbed if you’re in blockstun. I’m still trying to get myself to remember to use it more often.
Trip guard is catching the jump’s recovery frames, usually with a low attack. This is mainly used to punish empty hops or to punish badly spaced jump-ins.
Clark can eat a dick.
This fool is the only character that I feel helpless against with most of my characters. Shen, Ralf and Vice all have a really hard time dealing with this fucker.
Mr.Karate is recently becoming a problem to me, I dont know shit about this fool and I just get smacked around in his dumb looking combos. The guy I was playing did stuff like Dp >TK flying kick into whatever then another Dp> super, no drive -_-
His j.CD also seems really good, it was going head-to-head with my Vice’s j.CD and I was losing most of the air-to-airs.
My team is Ralf/King or Saiki/Vice. Vs Mr.Karate, what do?
I always play Offense. It’s the best defense as well. Against Mr. K, it is indeed hard to jump against him due to DP and j.CD. However, I think his best move is his invisible fireball. With Ralf, I would rush him down. If he is doing invisible fireball from a good range, I’d try blowback then sonic boom+C, if it doesn’t work, I’d do his Ralf Bomber. However, Ex Ranbo will beat bomber, as well as ex command grab. If you are long distance from him, I would do shorthops just in case he does ex command grab. Once you see it, just j.CD with Ralf or come down with 5D or 5C and blow him up. If Mr. K is on you, make him respect that qcf+AC! I cannot stress how good this move is against characters without a command grab DM. Also, Ralf can beat him with his crazy good normals, remember you can HD off of them if they connect as well. Also, use Ralf’s instant overhead if you get him down. Once you do that, start baiting that DP. The bad thing is, I don’t know how to deal with Mr. K’s/Takuma’s CD, it is sooooo good. If he does it on reaction you can’t really do anything. If I jump in with Ralf, and i know its coming, just take the hit and don’t do anything because you don’t want to get counter hitted.
With Vice, i think this is overall a bad matchup for her. However, she has a winning chance. If he is doing invisible fireballs, EX whip him to you and followup. Also, try to test her ex shoulder and see if it will beat Mr.K’s j.CD. That could be a good option for you. If he is jumping in on you, Try to do instant air super and see if it works. Mr.K’s strings however is what makes the matchups really bad for her though. His blockstrings put him just outside of grab range. This can be an option for you to throw out a jab to stop hop ins, but remember you lose to sweeps and Mr.K’s sweep is GOOD. I’d say don’t Alternate guard Mr.K since his command grab can be stopped by a normal and for the ex, you can jump and hit him. But it can be hard to hit him if you jump then he does ex grab. In that situation, if you react fast enough you can do her air DM to fuck with when you come from the air. Like I said, you’d need GODLIKE reactions to do that though.
I don’t know much about King, I know some but not much of her game. So I can’t help you there.
what does one do against ex kyo? Right now this is the only character that gives me mad problems out of the whole cast.
thats easy, you pick Mr. Karate and spam fireballs aimed to force him into the air until he approaches then dragon punch him if he jumps over you obv. then hit confirm into a combo when they get up.