okay, my last forum post was about how terrible a gameplay mechanic dizzy is in fighting games (which it is terrible in some games like SF4, but others its a nice touch like with Third strike)
so yes, I’m complaining again. but this is more so a discusion, and I want to hear your opinions on this, and maybe im just not doing things right and you can tell me how I can fix my problem. now to the topic at hand!
over and over I am getting killed by chip damage. for example, when I got knocked down after being hit by an Ultra/Super in Street fighter 4, I am at very low health but I still think I can make a comeback! I can still win this!!
wait haha no, I just get hit by a 3 hit fireball that I cannot dash out of on wakeup, I HAVE to take the hit. and I end up getting killed off by chip damage. this happens with me ALOT! and I mean close to half of the matches I loose is because of situations like that. possibly its because I play gouken mainly now, and he doesn’t have a reliable wakeup.
this is insanely cheap, and extremely annoying.
to fix this, they could make it so you don’t take chip damage on your last bit of health, maybe 5 or 10%. at that low health any direct hit would kill you anyway most likely.
now you may think a problem with this is that the player on low health would play overly defensive, but if he does that, then time would run out, and the other player would win because of higher health. but if both players are at low health, then they would both play aggressively like they would in a normal match.
what do you guys think? and no comments saying learn how to block please, I know how to block -_-
I don’t think they should take out chip damage. If I’m have the life lead at low health, I can just block and not do anything and run away for the rest of the game without any fear of anything if i’m confident of my defense. And then I can just do ultra to waste the time down even more and secure the win even though I did nothing but run away and block since none of your attacks do damage if I do block. I don’t think that would be fun, and I feel like that’s where the meta would be if you can’t chip your opponent.
I honestly stopped caring after you said this but I read the rest anyway. Being defeated by chip damage has been a thing since Street Fighter 2. A special move has damage data for when the attack is successful and when it is blocked. It may not do much damage when it’s blocked but it still does damage. You’re salty because the chip damage was enough to kill you when you block it while getting up? Maybe you should just find a different way around it. You probably use Ryu from the sounds of it. EX Shoryuken fool. Get better at the game and you won’t have to worry about finding yourself in that situation so often.
Oh and P.S. How is a dizzy mechanic good for one game and terrible for another? Please explain this.
Well, maybe surviving on so little health should be removed, just kill 'em already! Also, at lower health, attacks do less so they have a mechanism to help a bit when players are low on health and you can mess up their timing by changing your wake-up time.
Personally, I wouldn’t want low health chip damage removed since it adds too much of a comeback factor. Ultras are enough.
So…you’ve learned how to block and now you’re being chipped out for blocking too much?
i kid. What you’re talking about is invulnerable block. It kind of exists in some games; typically in games with a block button. Try Virtua Fighter or Mortal Kombat (not perfectly invulnerable, but you get the point). it doesn’t exist in SF. Even Capcom joke about it, referring to it as a Cheap win, rather than chip, but that’s besides the point.
By complaining about dizzy before complaining about chip almost justifies its existence, as it proves that it progresses a players play style.
you mash, you get dizzied. You turtle, you get chipped. Next, you’ll learn to block and move, and ‘throws are an unfair mechanic’ will be your next thread.
chip is part of SF strategy, a great part since it can make a player pick a risky special over a safer normal, and vice versa.
i never thought i could read a more terrible idea than the idea i just read…
Sagat mirror round 2, sagat 1 has no rounds, 2 meters and just landed an ultra. sagat 2 has 1 round, no meter and is waking up. they are both down to 1% health. sagat 1 knows that meaty fireball fadc dp for chip is non existent so his chip options are of no use. Sagat 2 knows this so he just casually walks back and is not afraid to block for the remaining amount of time left in the round which will award him the game. So sagat 1 who had a essentially had a guaranteed round is now in a worse situation because sagat 2 cant be chipped, and now he has to approach sagat 2, which when and if he gets close to sagat 2 he needs to hope to either land a throw, a max range overhead, a counter poke, or the more likely scenario try to win a scramble off of a properly spaced tiger knee.
there are games where you can’t die from chip damage, or third strike where you have the ability to parry it if you can (leads to a low life mindgame the offensive player can choose whether or not to engage in).
chip usually functions to punish defensive play, but not that much. it’s basically saying “you can’t block forever” but it’s still better to block stuff you’re not sure of and take chip damage rather than guess and be wrong.
so you can imagine at the end of rounds it would be a problem for chip damage to just stop working. now the offensive player has to play riskier than he did to get there, either by playing a high/low mixup game or attempting throws. yeah I guess it sucks for people who aren’t used to it that you can wake up into inescapable chip situations, but I’d rather have that than the alternative where the defender suddenly is rewarded for being bad at the game. would just be another comeback mechanic if the rules suddenly changed at the end to favor the losing player.
the problem sounds like your mindset - you have pixels left and are thinking “I can still win!” if you played in a way that you got knocked down and had only pixels left, you already lost the round. you just don’t know it yet. the solution is to start playing those earlier parts of the round in a way where you don’t find yourself in that situation to begin with.
You lost by chip because you took more damage than the other guy. The fact that you were complaining about dizzy and now this really makes it clear you arent able to do comebacks because you probably arent able to last the entire round without gimmicks.
You know, there ARE ways out of getting a fireball chip. Ex SRK? Ultra (space dependent)
also as a general rule you should look at a game as an unchangeable object, and it’s your job to learn how to play it. when you lose because of X mechanic, the conclusion shouldn’t be “well that mechanic is stupid, they should change it because it wasn’t fair that I lost.” your thought should be “wow I lost, I don’t understand this game as well as I thought, time to change my play so I can win in the future.”
Did you forget that you have DWU? You should use DWU and Quick Rise to your advantage, so, you can mess up your opponent’s timing (that is, if you can).
Also, you must learn to keep yourself from ending up in that position and learn how to put your opponent in that position, so they can get angry at you! :bgrin:
I get the feeling his respond will be like “In 3rd Strike, they show you how close to stun you are, but in SF4, they show nothing”.
Not to beat a dead horse, but stun in #4 doesn’t happen that often, unless you have no gameplan.
People have adapted to DWU, I always mash DWU on hard KDs and I still have to block meaty fireballs. Luffy did plenty of meaty fireballs at EVO even when his opponents were doing DWU.
first off, no you didn’t read the whole thing. I mentioned that I mainly play Gouken not Ryu. I almost never use ryu but I do know about his EX shoryu being invulnerable. Gouken has no reliable wakeup option.
in Street fighter 4 there is no dizzy meter, and in street fighter 3rd strike there is one. you can see how much dizzy you have, and it better alerts you that you need to change how you handle your opponent. plus it works in play with some characters combos, like Makato. Street fighter you can’t see it, and it just all of a sudden happens out of nowhere it seems. and in Street fighter 2, getting dizzied once pretty much costs you the match, making it extremely easy for experienced players to KO not as experienced players.
In particular, “On Cheapness”, “Prelude to a Diss” and “You can lead a scrub to water”
They cover a lot of the main points that new players complain about and offer an alternative frame of mind when approaching them. They also cover why certain “unfair” features are included, from a developmental perspective.
Trust me, if you get over the hump and start to appreciate Street Fighter for what it is, rather than trying to poke holes in it, you’ll find things like dizzies, chip outs, time outs and all that stuff adding to the excitement. Just…try it for a while first; if this game was as messed up and broken as you act like it is, you think we’d all be playing it?
