Hopefully they don’t nerf anyone…plz no more capcom style balance.
I believe Jago is better the Wulf… Sadiras jump cancels though… damn.
I used to think that, but jagos neutral game is seeming more and more lacking to me. He has great frame advantage, but not the range or the mobility. Also, his instinct is the worst.
Yeah it’s the KOF XIII problem, one of the things I don’t like about either game.
I was watching PR_Rog’s stream last night, and he faced Grimmz (think that is his name) and he was playing Jago, and holy shit he raped Rog, 2x in a row. He was super efficient with Jago and put so much pressure on his Orchid. I’ve never seen Jago played like that.
And on top of that, he had manuals for days. I never realized how good/important manuals were/are going to be until I watched those 2 matches. It was super hard for Rog to break the combos because he kept mixing up manuals and auto-doubles, and was mixing up even which manuals he was using making it even harder.
I’m going to have to start learning and figuring out the timing of manuals very shortly because that is going to be key in this game.
Any vids on that?
@purbeast I just realized Grimmmz is an old SFIV player during the console super days. He used to be a regular on the PeacefulJay stream. He was always known as having a very wild and aggressive Ryu. Now I understand why he’s doing as well as he’s doing. Obviously only someone well versed in SF could be playing Jago and hitting those manuals and footsie games as well as he does.
I don’t know if I would agree with that statement.
Different games reward different skill sets even between ST games. I know of many top ST players who are barely decent in SF4 and several great 3s guys who can’t cut it in cvs2. It’s possible that grim is just good at adapting…cause I seriously doubt daigo would be amazing at this game with jago by virtue that he plays incredible in SF4 with ryu. Not to mention KI has a lot in common with combo heavy games like marvel and SFXT so players familiar to structured,footsie orientated fighters with no random factors might not transition well.
Well Grimmmz is not amazing at this game. I don’t think anybody is amazing at this game yet. If Daigo decided to seriously pick up this game he would have the manuals and general spacing of the game down pretty quickly also. May he might not be the best combo breaker, counter breaker, instinct user or whatever, but hes’ going to have the spacing down pretty well.
That’s pretty much how J.Wong won NEC. He’s still not necessarily a great Killer Instinct player (he especially wasn’t with the shitty combos he was doing during NEC), but he’s just so versed in his spacing and adapting that he was able to pull through despite his constant misuse and lack of optimization of the game’s combo system.
All fighting games have “random” factors or things that are barely under your control to some degree. ST has all kinds of just unfair zero frame throw OS stuff and safe ambiguous set ups where you basically have no choice but to guess right. The footsies are rather rigid, but everything other than that is very swingy. Plus the game is rather glitchy in general. Even the damage combos and attacks do randomly change.
To me it just makes sense that someone already versed in SFIV (which teaches you link timing for combos and general footsie games) is transitioning well with Jago in KI. Only other thing you’d need to be good at regarding Jago is just the frame traps and utilizing combo and counter breakers. Sadira and Glacius play more along the lines of anime game style characters with their movement and projectile techniques. Jago is a footsie character thrown into a game with a few more abstracts than a typical SF game. Otherwise he’s pretty familiar for a SF player IMO.
The fact that he might be conceptually familiar to a SF player doesn’t mean the game engine he’s in will be and that’s where the real game changer lies. Ryo from KOF is conceptually similar to ryu as well yet you can’t space with him like you would with ryu in ST. In some cases it doesn’t even need to be a different game engine but just differences in the character between iterations. Lets take daigo’s perfomance at evo in HDR for example…the man was the best ryu in ST yet his dominance was nowhere near as imposing in HDR because the ryu in HDR and HDR as a whole is different enough from ST that his ability in ST didn’t mean much.
Wong also tried his hand in MK9 if I’m not mistake and while he found early success it was only a matter of time before he got chewed out. He was also a top 3s chun player yet in SF4 I don’t remember him ever winning with chun. Even in my personal experiences between different ST games I can’t play SF4 ryu half as good as I play ryu in 3s in spite of it being the same character. Therefore my basic point is that while jago is conceptually similar to a SF character he is worlds apart by virtue that the KI engine is severely different from the ST engines. As someone who mained fei for example I can’t exactly implement any of the lessons I learned with him into this game outside just universal principles that don’t even work the same. It also irks me when people say playing SF2 teachers you how to play fighers because a more accurate statement would be that SF2 teachers you basic ideas about fighters.
I just found it in his archive.
Go to 5:02:15. He faces him 2x in a row. The dude is crazy good with Jago. Rog was hating on him hard because he jumped a lot though.
Although I guess he’s not as aggressive as I had thought. But his manuals are sick.
51% 18 hit combo full of manuals. Pretty sick.
Damn wish that link worked on my phone.
Gotta check it out ASAP when I’m home.
If you want to check out Grimmmz, check out his Road to Wildcat series. He streamed for 8 hours straight the night of the new patch. His Jago is absolutely insane.
Manuals, multiple DP’s, adaptability, and great defense.
EDIT: He also ends up playing some of the awesome players in KI. KDD, Max, GamerLCD, Draman Kuritani, FilthieRich, Rico Suave, Flexcy, Noxcy, and loads more.
Looks solid its good to have a reference point.
Game is updated with Jago classic costume btw guys. figured you’d want to know.
Is anyone else not getting the Counter Breaker challenge achievement?
I hit 3 counterbreakers in a (online) matchup for multiple times now, but I ain’t getting nothing.
Week of Sabrewulf: Let the salt flow through you!
I think manuals in this game should be unbreakable…the timing is strict so I think there should be some incentive beyond just being a bit harder to break.
To compensate though they could make the damage low so that only auto doubles can inflict high damage while still being prone to breakers.
Edit: anyone who disagrees with me is gay!
Making manuals unbreakable completely destroys the meta of the game, everything was designed to be breakable for a reason.
So then people would only do unbreakable combos…