F.mp buffer moves seem very non-viable. It’s such an awkward motion. It’s like Alex’s st.mp into stungun which is amazing in practice, but you rarely see anyone do. Some motions just ain’t practical.
I’ll go with lurk and say pressing buttons is better.
How is it convoluted? Headbutt is risky to buffer into because it whiffs on crouchers. This OS eliminates that risk. Yes you can still buffer into tackle or fireball but both of those are punishable on block at close range.
I don’t see how “walk around and press buttons” is supposed to contribute to the discussion when that’s something that literally every character does.
Since when is an “awkward motion” a reason to avoid a move? I would just consider that a reason to practice it more.
I don’t even think f.MP > headbutt is that hard and I’m usually shit at charge execution. The cancel window is forgiving.
I agree that f.mp into headbutt is an easy motion after a little bit of practice; It’s not an excuse. If you’re buffering a down charge in the neutral (that’s your prerogative), switch it to df, roll to f.mp, then press uf.mp.
Whether or not its an ideal buffer depends on the situation you’re in, though.
whats his best crush counter punish in the corner?
Charged st.hp ~ dash ~ cr.hp (do combo).
and the do combo im guessing is hk fireball into lk tackle?
AAs are f+MP and the H fireball (usually required a read or a telegraphed jump). I’ve seen Chris G using effectively armored tackles as a far AA. I think st. HK has a good hitbox too.
How do you win with your slow moves? The same way Nash does… by not letting them in and by using your surprising mobility to your advantage. Urien’s dashes are actually faster than Nash’s and go even further; his pokes have an absurd range and he can easily rush in if needed. And he also has an invincible reversal, something Nash doesn’t have.
A few quick questions. Anyone have the following info.
Ex Chariot on block and who can punish it. Also whats the meaty on block.
Spaced meaty medium/lp tackle and who can punish it.
the knee dive on block and who can punish it… block on standing vs their shin area.
meaty headbutt and ex on block.
Whats Uriens best + on block normals and frame trap to follow.
Anyone know what the frame on block is on a spaced fireball after lpxmp target combo.
Does anyone use Uriens jab as an aa vs neutral jumpers? Or should i rely on s.hk?
Urien’s EX chariot is Gill’s Third Strike chariot
Speaking of which. When they release Gill, his CA will be the wing super and his V-Trigger will be the resurrection only on a full V meter though.
EX tackle is 0 on block and +3 meaty. Nothing can punish it.
Meaty L/M tackle is 0 on block.
Regular knee drop is unsafe on block (up to -7 with heavier versions having more disadvantage), but can be up to +2 if it hits on the toes. EX knee drop is +2 on block at least and up to +6.
Meaty headbutt is 0 to +2 on block (L=0, M=+1, H=+2). EX headbutt is -17 on block (-13 meaty)
Best normal is clearly st. MP (+3 on block). Charged st. HP is also +3. None of is standing normals is unsafe.
Normal fireballs are -8 on block, but charged ones are +4 (L) or +2 (M) and EX ones are either +1 (uncharged) or +13 (charged).
I think jab could work against neutral jumps but I’m not 100% sure.
[EDIT] sorry I had the old frame data, I bolded the things that changed
If you’re buffering down charge then you aren’t moving. First, that’s really bad in this game generally, but second how are you going to get “VERY precise spacing” if you’re just sitting in crouch block for 45 frames. Also, even if you are at that specific range where this works as an OS, why do you even want to do that. If they press a crouching button like a crouching medium kick, they will whiff punish you. You’re doing a whiff OS with a move that moves Urien’s whole body forward and is dead meat to common stuff like crouching strongs, forwards, sweeps, and jabs. I just don’t see the point when Urien has so many real, generally strong options that don’t require you to crouch for nearly a second, with the opponent then walking into the exact right place to do this, so you can intentionally whiff a normal.
That’s mental energy you could be dedicating to whiff punishing, or anti-airs, or scoping out dashes.
hp.Fireball > mk.Tackle unless their back is literally to the wall, then lk.Tackle. The difference is only 8 damage but hey, its 8 damage and probs like 120 stun.
So lk and mk Tackle are both +4 combo starters when spaced properly everyone.
Mk.Tackle > st.lp-st.mp xx hk.Tackle | 210/380 EX.Tackle | 252/417
Also discovered throw into meatie lk.Tackle will be +4 on counter hit and beats 3 frame jabs on quick rise (no idea on back rise) while armoured will stuff wake-up DPs.
Fair enough; I’ll concede that the whiff OS is extremely situational. However, I think f.MP is more useful as a poke than you’re making it out to be. The strength of f.MP is not it’s priority vs. other buttons but the fact that 1( it’s Urien’s longest special cancellable normal and 2(it catches both jump-ins and dashes at the range where dash/jump becomes a mixup.
I also think, in general, that Urien will have to rely on more situational options than other characters.
So I was dicking around in training mode and thought this could make some interesting set play.
Cr. HP xx EX up fireball can be reset by f+mp(scenario 1), however you can mix that up by delaying the EX fireball(scenario 2). If you delay it, you have to dash foward and then f+mp, which creates this super late, neat reset.
I set the dummy to a 3f jab and tried messing around with both options. For option 1 you can time a HP counterhit but the timing is extremely iffy and specific. For scenario 2 I’m fairly certain you’re just at +/-0 because I keep getting jabbed out of it, but you can walk walk a teeny bit and counterhit with mp. These are probably fraudulent but they look so similar that I’m sure there’s some kind of mindgame…somewhere in there.
Also the more I experiment with it the more I’m convinced that HK is his most optimal AA. jab, cr. hp and f+mp are unreliable at best when at crossup range but HK’s hitbox seems to extending vertically enough to at least trade. It’s not the best reaction move but it’s still better than say, dictator’s c.hp.
Its plus 6. You can land a 5mp.
So I’ve been trying Urien and I really like him so I feel like actually learning him but he is kinda the opposite of what I usually play (he is charge with long normals, wants to keep you out and has a bunch of mixups while I usually play Ken). He is also the first charge character I’ve decided to learn.
Mostly my problem is how do you go about the neutral? Is it mostly fireballs?
Usually I end up in the corner and I get bodied, I think part of it is me keeping my charge too much and the other part is not playing the neutral correctly (I am very defensive with him). So I am looking for tips.
Here, have some semi-fraudulent tech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQe0lysCxNA
So all of these except for versions using ex.knee can just be walked back out of. Ex.knee is legit tho.
You can use the whiff to your advantage if the opponent isn’t expecting it with a throw or cr.lk. If that works more than once however, your opponent is butts.
Urien has a great set of buttons in a game where one of the (many) points of complaint is stubby normals. Use them. Stay at mid range and throw out pokes, whiff punish, and fish for CCs sometimes. Use his mobility for footsies and the occasional dash up throw.
Then take them to DA CLUB when you get Aegis. Confirm off basically anything into whatever combo or setup you want. My preference is in guard break or “unblockable” setups a la 3S which are pretty easy to do and are quite effective.
starting to get used to him in matches now.
I’m getting the hang of what buttons I want to press at what ranges (I really like his buttons), and in my last session I wasn’t dropping his easy combos anymore.
haven’t done any real Aegis combos in fights yet
no one hit hit confirms or ch hit confirms yet
and its rough trying to keep people out the air.