I don’t like the standard Chun game much. Guess I can play it on a basic level but it just doesn’t engage me. Figure with her amazing normals and her great kara throw she is still pretty strong without Houyoku Sen. If I use her with Kikoshou it can’t make her too far below mid tier right?
Bar builds quick and can be used as an anti air well. A few of her reset AA can lead to decent damage, in the 50-55 range.
Tell me why not to use it guys. Please don’t waste time with “SA2 is better” or whatever variant of that might come to mind. I’m looking for really fatal flaws vs certain matchups or even better would be some lesser known perks.
A. Stop playing chun lame
B. Stop playin chun altogether.
C. Use sa1 against hugo.
D. If your friends are playing retarded and insist on jumping no matter what you do.
E. Post-sa2 gives you a lot of mix up options, which can lead to deadly stuff depending on the situation. Sa-1 does not.
Unsatisfactory ShesshaZL. You basically said SA2 is better so use that. I’m well aware of the power of Houyokusen and all its post super options with it’s many ways to confirm.
This is a secondary project. I’ve got Gouki, Ken and Oro to play seriously. Its for fun and exploration.
Please define “lame chun”.
EDIT: Actually I feel like if I get her normals and kara throw game down real tight without having to rely on SA2 I could eventually graduate to the stronger super with a very strong base.
If you really want to play Kikoushou, then go for it. Honestly if you really want to add that “don’t say SA2 is better” stipulation, then there aren’t much reasons why you SHOULDN’T play SA1.
Tensei Renka, on the other hand, is shitty and I’m sure everyone can give reasons for that.
Kikosho does give you somewhat of a viable wake-up option aside from EX Legs or EX Bird, but at the same time, you’re taking a huge gamble by banking your wake-up on those. The drawback, to be fair, is meter use. Now, you argue that the bar is short enough for her to build meter, but part of the argument here is that having SA2 is also a giant mind-fuck, particularly with two stocks. You burn an EX, well, there goes your ability to super. You burn super, she has to work for meter again, and despite her stupidly good normals, if you break her defense, you’re left without an option to really get the opponent off of you outside of a proper SGGK or some shit like that.
After giving it some more thought, I’m going to say this: Kikoushou itself is not scary enough to make opponents fear you. She’s technically a pixie, but Kikoushou can only serve two purposes: big damage up close, or a get-off-me move from a distance. She has little reason to want to get in because she doesn’t have much high-damage or mixup options. She doesn’t have much of a choice other than to keep opponents away, but considering a lot of characters have a better risk-reward ratio against a meterless Chun she’s going to have to put up a good fight to keep them off her. Wakeup SA1 is somewhat better than EX SBK or EX Lightning Legs on account that it’s ridiculously fast, but again, it’s not that great.
Also take into account meter management, like Duralath said. You’re going to want to use her Super, because without it she deals as much damage as ohhhhh Twelve. You’ll have more chances to land Kikoushou than XNDL, but at the very least Twelve can just use the meter for EX moves and just make his overall game more solid with that. Chun can only use her EX moves for escape purposes, and even then they can get beat out by either an overhead(EX SBK) or a meaty(EX Lightning Legs). Granted it’s one small bar, but she’s going to have more trouble building it up than Yun can with Geneijin, who can build back that meter even after the Super’s depleted. Considering the aforementioned lack of merits in an offense-oriented Chun, she’s going to have to do a lot of running away and normal whiffs.
Also, if you land Kikoushou from far away, the amount of damage you dish is drastically lower than close range. The same applies for Corkscrew Blow, but he has two more chances to be able to land it up close, AND he can gain positional advantage because of the quicker recovery time. Necro’s Magnetic Storm also has better recovery time, and even when used as anti-air he can position himself to wherever he chooses, either up close or far away(in the case of Hugo).
That said, Kikoushou itself isn’t terrible. It’s just Chun herself has so little to offer besides her pokes and kara-throw. She relies on using her Supers because otherwise she’s just poking and running. She’s still going to be better than other similar characters(…Twelve), but she will also have very little motivation for wanting to play anything other than poke-and-run.
Awesome. Just what I needed, some well reasoned answers.
Yeah I’m starting to feel like the whole “not needing a reason to fear her” is a big problem. Oh well. I never wanted to play twelve but was always curious about his style and it is a much better comparison than Sean. It’s too bad too because I’ve been playing KikouChun with a pretty aggressive style then blasting jumpins or jump aways or even wiffed moves. It’s a lot of work cuz then I gotta piss off to build half my meter again. Yun has it so damn good with that shit.
Yeah, you have to consider the benefits that a character’s Super can bring.
In my case, if I could get away with Tyrant Slaughter Urien, I would play that instead of Aegis, but then I sacrifice almost all of my safe offensive approaches. It’s a great defense/counter Super, but that’s ALL it’s good for. Jupiter Thunder is even more useless because despite the massive stun it can do, you’re going to have to pull off some RX-level guesses to be able to land that properly. Also with Q, I’d totally rock Total Destruction outside of sandbagging…if it wasn’t for the fact that I just lose EX moves and get two more moves that I won’t be able to land outside of juggling into it in the corner or other super gimmicky situations.
Not hitting fully, in situations you react to stuff with it isn’t too intimidating. That’s a drawback, probably known and unsaid. I’m the master of redundancy, of course.
Yep Read up now, aku had that in there, except the react/confirm stuff unsaid. Real Fast startup, probably 1, and comes out of her staying in place holding her ground rather than confirm, open them up at distance, is probably seeing the new side of Chun you want to explore. Nothing wrong with that, maybe see if it works better for you to see what matchups that might be worth taking a look at the pros and cons what it shuts down. Like vs Chun, no. Taking 12 out of the sky, maybe. Or online divekickers or something.
Played an online poking and running SA3 for anti air Chun. That was fun. Fullscreen fireball don’t even have to block. Dudley danced in place. The Video only looking good if inebriated/lacking sleep probably.
The start up is friggin ZERO. That’s one reason I like it.
Hit box is kinda pathetic for the first few frames though. Way out in front of her till it grows into a gigantic mutated b+hp red box shield. Some tricky jump ins that were too close might stuff it. Remy’s weird angled jump hk maybe? Played around a bit using mk to kara and surprise those who think they’re far enough away to jump plus get more damage. Actually I was hoping there was a normal that moved her backwards to deal with the far out hitbox at start. Don’t think so though.
Been wondering about it being a lot more effective against certain characters. Those who rely on their air game and lowish health is a plus. Twelve, Ibuki maybe, possibly Elena, Oro I guess by default, as mentioned Hugo is susceptible, drillkick Necros?
Didn’t use it in quite the way I wanted in our Chun vs Ibuki match. Still getting the quick reaction to jumps/attacks plus the timing/spacing for max damage. It will come with in game exp tho.