It does extend I believe not by much though
i’ve always noticed all versions of shoulder have a “late” active hitbox. i’m sure TC canceled to jab shoulder, if you get the late active frames… that’s not a true block string. my assumption was that the move has two active hit boxes… 1 for the early hit… and another for the late hit. don’t know how true that is though.
also nebbiez, since you said you wanted to combo with a run stop in the middle. CH cl. fierce xx run stop > cr. short > ff chain is a combo that you can do with a run stop in it. likewise CH cl. strong xx run stop > cr. short into whatever also works. setups i like to use to get the CH are things like… cr. jab > cl. fierce… good for blowing up cr. techs or jab mashing and as far as i can tell is a pretty legit frame trap. i’ve never had an opponents light attacks get through this. you could also try cl. forward… walk up cl. fierce. it all depends on how willing your opponent is to block, or how well you’ve trained them.
one setup i’ve been getting a lot of mileage out of lately is after a successful run slide… go for the safe jump nj. fierce… slight walk forward cl. fierce. i run an extremely ground based, footsie oriented guy so i do a lot of frame traps, ch setups, and whiff punishing.
also, i think we’ve all been sleeping on how good TC is at blowing up focus attempts. especially with the CH from the 2nd hit. the fact that TC is cancelable makes this a strong tactic for us. when i see focus… i just do TC xx run slide. if i had known about the CH i would’ve been punishing it a lot harder.
Hozantos have 3 active frames
Speaking of hozantos…we already know about Ultra 1 in the corner without meter after light hozanto - but the timing is strict.
I was playing around with it. If you land a focus crumple and wait until they’re airborne (before landing on the ground) and hit them with hozanto, it’s as if you landed a hozanto while they’re in the air so they float more and you can land Ultra 1 with ease. It’s harder to land with medium hozanto cos of the recovery but I think I managed it. Needs further testing if anyone is intrigued.
Situation: say you’re not too far from the corner and you hit level 1 or 2 focus back dash and get a crumple. You can then fw dash a couple times or so and do direct light hozanto into Ultra.
I haven’t tested this yet but that’s just me theorizing in my head. I guess you can fw dash and do direct ultra if you’re really close to the corner, but perhaps the hozanto covers more space?
Unless you’re crumpling a ridiculously long range normal (i.e. Dhalsim) you should have time to forward dash after the back dash and immediately ultra to catch them, in the corner at least anyway (likely won’t work on Dan’s retarded crumple hurt box). That would scale less than using the LP hozanto juggle, but I really like your thinking on that one!
Ultra 1 can be connected without FADC after a MP Hozanto in corner, as long as you hit it on the absolute last active frame (AKA “max range”).
This “max range” will of course vary depending on what you catch your opponent doing. Ryu throwing a fireball extends his arms, so the max range is further than if Ryu were simply standing with no block. Focus charge up also changes hurtboxes.
HP Hozanto has same active and recovery frames, so it’s possible with this one too, but timing it to hit “max range” will be impractical.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, this may not work at all for some characters (such as Fuerte) while for some characters it may work easier, such as after hitting the hozanto on the second active frame (maybe Gief, Sim). Further testing required.
There’s no way you can visually tell if it’s the last active frame or not, and even then we’re talking a 1 frame link to catch that ultra juggle. Massive risk there, I wouldn’t even attempt this outside of the lab. But still it’s cool to know it’s possible, however impractical it may be!
I will try it out in some games and see how it goes.
Visually, one must be very familiar with hozanto’s range to sharpen reaction upon impact. Assuming you are already buffering 2 qcf, you are looking to react with 3 kicks upon seeing the two characters far apart and the impact “explosion” filling that gap as though it were a third character. Try throwing different range hozantos in the lab, you will see the difference.
I believe this is easier for people who are good at spotting meaties.
Something I’ve noticed against Dudley in very high level play is you should just block on wakeup. I always use U2 against Dudleys anyway, so I tend to just buffer the 2 half circles into block and activate if I clearly see he’s going for a meaty. NEVER back dash! Not only can he OS it easily with both of his ultras or dash cross, he can forward jump elbow ON REACTION to Guy’s back dash and catch it.
In the neutral game Guy wins this matchup hands down (despite what you may think after Kreymore’s recent disappointing performance against Smug) but after he knocks you down, Dudley has serious anti-Guy shenanigans! The trouble is there are so few REALLY good Dudley players out there who actually understand how the Guy matchup should be played, so to most Guy players the matchup will be laughably easy. But it is not as one sided as I once thought…
That’s what I thought. I just wanted to see if lp hozanto would work from a range where forward dash ultra would not fully juggle after crumple, near the corner but not near enough.
A random thought that came to mind.
If your Guy is entertaining to watch to non-Guy/low level players, then you are probably playing the character wrong.
I believe this to be true. Many people like watching super aggro and/or gutsy and risky, Guy being no exception. Risk, thats a huge factor.
People were extremely hyped when Daigo multi DP’d Gamerbee at Dreamhack. But the move itself is very powerful and makes complete sense to throw out after downloading and/or conditioning.
Maybe another example could be Makoto’s dash up Karakusa. Of course this is risky, but it still makes so much sense if the Makoto player has properly gauged what kind of opponent he is facing, or found another gap in defense. And once this hits, its huge combo or U1. Big payoff.
Guy has this risk-payoff capability to a certain degree. Bushin flip grab does a whopping 180, frame trap combo into hozanto can lead to Ultra 1, neck flip has a tight window of comboing.
But compare these to the sheer simpleness and versatility of other characters “risk” or “read” moves. Ryus DP has invincibility, Makotos EX karakusa has armor. Half the cast can focus cancel their risk moves (though this also means opponents can become easier to read if they have meter) Guys risk moves become exponentially easier to block and react to, as you climb up to higher ranks.
So Guy as a crazy risk character? Fun for majority of audience, but never achieves too much. If such risk capable characters are like drunks fighting unpredictably and fueled by emotion and instinct, Guy seems like the bouncer in that same club who has solid form and keeps focused on the job.
Anyone watched Seven Samurai? I think anyone picking up Guy should understand that mastering Guy is like becoming Kyuzo, a man who doesnt boast about his Samurai status or strength, with no desire for fame, and is focused on nothing but mastering his sword skill.
Well, that’s more than just one thought - but yes I agree with most of this and people who play Guy a long time will more likely come to the same conclusions. The risk/reward game is definitely not in his favour and to win, you just have to play solid throughout. If you somehow land Ultra, then that’s just a bonus…albeit probably scaled to sh**t.
Guy is a Master Escape Artist, Master of Baiting, Master of Punishing (and whiff punishing), but lacks in other areas. Guy is classified as a rush-down character, I say more of a ‘defensive character with rush-down ability’. As a sub-thought I also like to think of Guy as a ‘Mind-Games character’.
I think it’s a.common misconception among the Guy community that he should only be played one way. It ENTIRELY depends on your opponent. To me, probably the most important part of being a Guy player is the ability to not only learn generally how every matchup should be played, but to learn to read your opponent and how they’re trying to beat you. When I hear “…FIGHT!” at the start of a round, I don’t think “Ok what have I gotta do to body this guy?” I think “What is this guy doing to try and body me?” The idea Guy should only be played patiently and defensively is a pretentious myth spread by Guy players who have never really achieved anything. Try that lame defensive crap against someone like Dieminion and see what happens. Sometimes you just need a calculated bit of ‘going apeshit’ to get the job done.
…just never ever against Zangief. Always play that lame as hell lol
I agree, lame defensive doesnt work with Guy very well because once he gets tagged its hard to hit back and regain lead.
Guy has to attack of course, but is required to be more controlled, calm and logical than with any other char.
Any reason to use cr.lk cr.lk mp as a bnb hit confirm instead of cr.lk cr.lp mp?
cr.lk leaves you at +5 and cr.lp at + 6 - so it’s easier to link into st.MP
You can use cr.lk x2 as a blockstring to catch them stand-blocking, or maybe even backdashing/mashing dp, if they’re slow enough.
Also, c.lk has a little more range. There are some distances where the c.lp will whiff but c.lk will hit, so if you’re abit far from the opponent, c.lkx2 is the more consistent hit confirm.
Cr Lk is plinkable.