Here’s a fairly safe cross up against Gief.
Forward throw in corner -> backdash -> whiff LK -> forward jump MK
Only EX version of SPD beats it, Ultra 1 and Super will whiff, PPP Lariats are blocked.
I found something with Gief a couple of months ago. When you grabbed Gief and threw him forward to the corner and fwd dashed, you’d go under him. If anyone would like to build on that go ahead. Not sure if people know about it. Doesn’t help me as I don’t want to be in the corner at all against Gief.
Yeah he seems to be the only character who has that. Delaying the dash by a frame seems to fix it, although if its for a setup, careful not to get lariatddd… wall jump should be good.
Yeah ultra and super would whiff anyway as they don’t catch safe jumps. You’re just changing up the timing so that reversal lariat gets blocked. That’s neat and all but now you’re in the corner, and if he goes for KKK lariat then you’re juggled in the corner. Not good…
It’s honestly not worth the risk pressuring Gief with setups like that, playing solid will work a lot better. Stay just outside of LP SPD range and just walk and poke him back towards the corner with far MK/HK/HP. This will probably make him want to jump in on you, which can easily be anti-aired with cr. MP, far HK or even TK air grab. The only thing you need to watch out for is if he does jump in whiff knee drop into SPD. This will often cause your anti-air to whiff, which the SPD the punishes. In this situation, both cr. HK and instant run-slide will catch his knee drop as it lands. I tend to avoid the habit of using EX tatsu to anti-air Gief, because if he has ultra 2 and activates then let’s just say Russia’s skies will be well protected…
The problem with Gief isn’t his offence, it’s his tank-like defense and fear that he could just SPD at any moment. This is why it’s very important to get the life lead right from the start with clever, solid defensive play. Don’t rush in there trying to cause damage, because 1 SPD will undo all that work. Once you have the life lead, just keep the hell away - there’s very little Gief can do apart from random green hands and assorted jump in moves to get in on you. Stay on the ground as much as possible, avoid floaty jump ins and bushin flipping around.
Yeah I play extremely lame against Giefs and even Hawks. Opponents usually switch chars after, probably exhausted or something. Guy vs Gief is fun.
I dunno which Giefs you play - Guy vs Gief is awful. You can never normal slide, you can never jump and you gotta fight against his st.MP which can beat most if not all of Guy’s pokes when used correctly. Guy essentially has to “poke” Gief to death and that’s not happening.
Here’s how to tell if the Gief player knows what he’s doing - if he’s coming to you from the get go, jumping in etc, then he’s not really playing the match-up.
I’ve beaten Giefs, Kreymore has beaten Vangief and Aquasilk, its a winnable match. I wouldn’t determine it a 7-3 but more a 6/4 or 6.5/3.5. No Gief will be 100% on things. You have to take the advantage of getting certain things early and maintaining a lead. Gief st.mp may be great but there are ways around it and ways to make Gief have to use other normals. Patience is really a necessity in that match.
You have to rely on the Gief player getting flustered and impatient - of course the match-up is “winnable” cos Guy is essentially playing against a human being, be it Aquasilk, Itabashi, whoever - not a computer. Theoretically speaking, Gief can probably grab Guy (lp SPD) whenever he is in range to make any contact - so that makes it 10-0!
While I kinda agree with this statement, the same could be said for any character in the game. If you had broken AI that immediately reacts as you press a button, any character with an invincible DP could abuse that every time you hit a poke button within range. It’s not always realistic to judge matchups in this way, because the chances of playing any human Gief player who can immediately SPD a poke on reaction are extremely small.
The thing is…I’ve had people walk back and forth *IN *the neutral game, and grab me with light SPD. I merely stated the theoretical 10-0 match-up to hint at the truer nature of the match-up. I’m not saying human vs human it’s 10-0, but with enough patience, concentration and experience, Gief can rape beat Guy pretty badly. I’ve played over 20,000 matches on XBL, not counting PC matches, and there hasn’t been one character that’s made me pick a secondary more than Zangief. That’s probably followed by Honda.
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Never said it was easy, there’s at least 3 Gief regulars around here who know the Guy matchup very well, but I still think it’s fun. People over exaggerate the terror of this matchup.
As for Gief’s st MP, Guy’s cr MK beats it (and knocks down if timed so)
gief vs guy is plain out bad for guy but, guy has Far St.hk to stop any whiff green hand(if your ok with reactions) guy can anti-air with cr.mp,cr.mk ect.Guy’s jump is good in that match for retreating or resetting position,gief is also a character guy can time out. I tell players (in person) if I get a big life lead on gief and you don’t have U2 or can’t perform standing 360’s best to watch the timer and prey I want to go in. That match up is played on the ground 1-3 mistakes your done so playing solid is the key also respect gief’s wake up.To sum that match up try playing the gief cpu highest difficulty using only pokes to win.
I agree. I really think getting a timeout is probably the best way for Guy to approach this match. Even if you get a knockdown on Gief, his options are too many for you to go and meaty him, especially if he has U1 and meter. Meaties are gambles with other characters too, but with Gief the cost is so much that it’s not worth it. Run or die I say.
Think I’ve seen that match with Otiohonso before. Zangief has 1 button lariat AA and he’s using cr.mp instead to try and AA Guy? Not to mention he’s playing offensively which he shouldn’t be. As for the backdash ultra, Oti. does a good job exposing it, but really as a Gief player with so much health and crappy backdash, I’d risk a kick lariat instead, or ex hands cancelled, which at worst will get thrown for petty dmg.
As for the Flash match, I saw him eat 3 normal slides from Guy in like 10 seconds and stopped watching. You can’t slide in this match at all. An experienced Gief crouch blocks that shit and reversal SPDs. Flash plays lots of characters and I don’t know how much exp he has with Gief Guy.
Otinhoso is great he knows to use that timer right(i have to learn this).I meet some of those usa top players from my experience most will counter pick to limit the randomness factor even if thy are not good with the character at high lvl.Guys Cr.Hk is a high risk low reward normal on block -(5-10) on hit its -(2-3)? hope they make useable as well place poke and less - on the standing verison maybe +2 on hit.
The slide is -2/3 on hit? You sure…so that means Flash could have SPDd him on hit too? facepalm
Um… Cr.hk is +2 or +3 at max range on hit.
Lol. I’ve gotten spd’d on hit with that stupid slide. That slide only gets me killed. I’d rather guy not have a crhk. Lol jokes aside. I really only use the slide for trip guard. (When I’m playing well atleast. Sometimes I just push that button all day and get murdered for it. Work in progress) but I really like it as an AA. My only real gripe that I think they should change is the ability to get grabbed out of its start up. Can’t tell you how many times I have gotten grabbed out of the animation. Just seems like that’s shouldn’t happen. I would like to be able to frame trap with that move (lol, OP as hell) to cause a knockdown mix up situation. But what I’m trying to say is that’s probably not goin to get a change and should really not be used much.
Aside from the Gief matchup, slide isnt too terrible so long as it isnt a habit. far MK after max range slide catches some people (or slide after max range far mk). Id even look for throwing in a CH far mp xx lp HZT
When you use it habitually though, people look for it, and whiff punish with ease (or just block and punish)