Ken Match-ups Thread: "Strong fighters such as yourself make it worth staying in shape!"

Oh I more note on Birdie. His EX Dive (QCB+K, exd) can be Medium & heavy DP’d and before he uses his objects that he throws on the ground can be step kicked before he gets it out.

Don’t know if this was mentioned already but you can full run/v-trigger combo if you whiff punish Vega F.HP with st.hp which is not that hard.

You can also do cr.mp xx ex.tatsu which is super easy.

I have made a very rough video with no edit (so I fuck up some of the combos after) to show it. Excuse me for this but this is just to show that it works.

If my timestamp doesn’t work go to 0.40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LWsNQvlvYs&feature=youtu.be#t=00m40s

So here’s who I’m having the most trouble with:
-Aggressive Bisons
-Aggressive Necallis
-Aggressive Lauras

They seem safe on everything, and their grab game is really good (two have command grabs, and Bison just has crazy range). I’m kinda at a loss at what to do in these matchups other than just getting lucky. It’d be nice if I had safe abusable moves, too. Feel like I’m playing MKX half the time.

Also:
-Conservative Ryus
-Conservative Chuns

Dudes that just sit back and chuck plasma (and also parry yours with Ryu), and DP/AA literally EVERY jump-in. They’ll down-back until the end of time like it’s Evo grand finals. I thought I was done playing SF4, but apparently not. I can literally feel the sweat dripping through my headset from the other side when I play these dudes. I can’t compete with these characters in footsies, so it’s difficult to approach from the ground when their buttons are better than mine. Ken’s range sucks, so I have no clue how to get in. I’m always caught in the position where we’re both down-backing, but I’m attempting to get in. I’m just outside of range of any of my good normals, and literally all I have is sweep. If I go for it, I get counterswept every single time. If I do get lucky enough to get in and land a blockstring, I get jabbed out of every V-Skill, so that doesn’t work either. It’s really frustrating and annoying.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Stop jumping, use your standing heavies to fish for things, get in that ass and abuse your mediums. You get that hit and about 1/5 their life gone. Ken has stubby normals so you gotta get in there. Try to fish them for a mistake. It’s all ken can do really.

Remember, shoryukens are not the greatest for stopping cross ups (except necallis but fuck him). Bait and punish accordingly. Ex air tatsu works as a safe-ish dive kick and you got 2 overheads when grounded. Make them fear the down back position and make them jump it at you when you start blowing up their blocking

Tl:dr, stop trying to play footisies with them and get in that ass.

Well if you want something long to read here you go, haha.

B+MP is great against Chun, aswell as cr.mp, cr.lp is even great as a check. Always have a buffer behind those normals though, mk tatsu or ex.

Ken outfootsies regular Necalli, and I’d say goes even when he’s in V-trig IMO. Fairly simple MU, v-reversal Necalli’s any normal > stomp. V-reversal any normal > v-trig. His MP and HP DP’s have no low hitbox so he is pretty free to lows on wake-up, he can only wake up with lp dp which has no invincibility so once you condition that in. Your meaties will be much more effective. Reaction step kick against seismo.

Def outfootsies Laura. Laura’s go for lp elbow on block which is -2 on block and +2 on hit. Do not press buttons when you get hit, and do not panic when she repeatedly does it. She literally has to take a guess between you back dashing, neutral jumping, back jumping etcetc. If you want to spend the bar, v-reversal, as it will work everytime, it’ll also reset the neutral which is in Ken’s favor. Also off resets that Laura does mid screen with ex fireball, she only stays same side if she uses fierce punch > v-skill forward. And she always crosses up when doing s.mk > v-skill forward. She could always delay dash to end up on the opposite side of setups, but in doing so the reset is not effective as it is easy to see what side she’ll end up on.

Remember that fireball is a footsie tool aswell, so when you’re outside of your best normal range, fireball. It is not easy to react to at that range. On top of what Mood said with the overheads, you can chuck plasma back aswell.

Can’t really give advice on Bison cause I haven’t really played a good one yet, but v-reversal scissors, cr.hp devil’s reverse. Punish lk scissors, it’s -4, don’t press buttons against st.rh (+3) or df.hp (+1)

Okay, so I got to play my friend’s Rashid and I have more tips for you guys:

In the neutral, you have to watch him, my buddy has a really good setup, where he throws the tornado and approaches from underneath it. What you can do about this is wait until AFTER the tornado comes up, and throw out a fireball, this cuts off his approach because he cannot dash from underneath it. From there he should start to mix it up, If you see him go high, his divekick IIRC isn’t an overhead, so you can block it crouching, or you can dash underneath it for a fancy dan. I didn’t get around to punishing it, but I don’t think normal means can punish it unless you react to the block hit. TBH, Rashid isn’t too big of a problem for Ken, because he gets so much more off small exchanges than Rashid does. Once you’re too close for him to setup with the tornado, watch for his punches (the ones where he’s spinning, the 3 punches.) he can cancel the last hit and maybe even the first, but b.MP can punish it either way. SPEAKING of b.MP, it can punish his spin move as I said before pretty damn consistently. Also, like I mentioned before, st.MK can punish anything b.MP can’t, like that forward lunge move, and once you get used to looking for those things, you should be able to stop most of what he wants to do. Aside from that, DO NOT jump in at Rashid, he is too good at AAing for it to be a stratagem. Rather you have to play a counter game with him and stuff his approaches and walk him into a corner to put on pressure.

I may be playing it wrong, but this has a very effective way for me to play Rashid players and pretty much get them to respect Ken

He can only roll after HK tornado which goes up, so you can react with a sweep or anything else and get a crush counter. That roll isn’t a safe approach at all.

I do have to ask about Zangief though. I have NO idea how to deal with his stuff, and it is what’s killing me. How do I effectively beat him? What’s a good putton to press at close range? because it seems like his command throw is really tough to beat

His command throw is 5 frame start up so you can bully and contend with him a lot more than you could in sfiv.

Yeah, you can AA birdie all day pretty easy. his lunge grab gets beat out by EVERYTHING, even st.LP up close. It is super unsafe. You should watch out for his jump ins because I don’t think there’s a completely free way to challenge them, but otherwise, I feel like Ken wins this MU. My favorite thing to do is react to it with H.Tatsu from far away and use fireballs to annoy him. He can’t really do too much, but you still have to play it safe because he has a lot of health and can take a lot of punishment. I can’t think of much that he can do that’s particularly safe or difficult to deal with. The only time I throw fireballs against birdie is to annoy him to force a move out or on wake up, BTW.

EDIT: I Will say, there was one instance of when I played someone and after an Ex.DP on wake up, they STILL hit me with their CA. before I hit the ground. I don’t know how or why, but it did. So I HAVE to include that because it means Birdie up close with full meter is dangerous. Very Dangerous.

Any tips on the Bison matchup? It seems really in bisons favor.

B.mp is officially a favorite button now. Beginning to believe that it doesn’t matter what matchup you’re against, as long as you’re comfortable with the spacing you can whiff punish just about anything with it into mk or ex tatsu.

Also against sim, if you whiff punish one of his limbs full screen, be buffering into lp Hadoken, you can dash up behind it to gain real estate and even freak the sim player out.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiHG9loOmrk

Neutral jump when he has charge once in awhile to scare them out of doing scissor kicks

Always be looking for his forward dash, punish with b.mp and confirm

If they’re being predictable with st.mk then you can whiff punish with b.mp into ex tatsu or b.mp into mk tatsu into gecko’s oki

If they’re trying to bully with df.hp then bait it out with ken’s walk-speed, it’s pretty easy to whiff punish with tc2.

Anti air

Hey, my first message here to say that you can punish Birdie dfHP on block with sLK HP SRK or sLK ex hadou VT etc. Don’t really know if it works at max distance though but it works from really far.

Thanks Latte, ill give your advice a shot next time i play :slight_smile: i really need to work on my ground game in sfv, sfiv has me so use to certain buttons.

Also i forgot to mention but, Ken can punish R.mika’s TC with lkxxHp.dp,LkxxFB,Lkxxlk/mk.tatsu and even raw super. You can buffer the super during her TC and it needs to be a reversal

Great tips, I’ve added everything I found worth noting, which is a lot.
I’m terribly sorry I haven’t been writing on matchups yet myself, I’ve been a bit busy with work.
I’ll try to write up what I’ve deducted on all the matchups I can think of.

vs Laura
I do think zoning her with hadoukens is very effective. She’s one of the few characters who has a v-skill that doesn’t cope with fireballs, so aside from her EX elbow and her own projectile, she can’t really cope with fireballs. Because both jumping and EX elbow are both unsafe, you want to be mindful and bait these options out instead of just endlessly throwing fireballs every chance you get. Adding moments of hesitation and spacing between your hadoukens will make her think three times before she commits to these unsafe options. So I suggest the main gameplan is to play her about 1/3 to 2/3 screen away, treating her like a grappler. You can check her EX elbow with EX fireballs, or if she does the elbow late into a regular hadouken, you can tag her with a poke before she hits you, because the hadouken will absorb the armor. Neutral jumps can also check her EX elbow, but I feel like neutral jumping too often will grant her a way in.

You CAN play footsies with her, but it’s a bit of a risk because it can leave you open to her getting a way in, and I frankly see no reason to simply zone her out. Her more punishable attacks are whiff-punishable, but I don’t suggest you try to poke her too often, aside from the occasional cr.mk buffer to stuff any dash attempts, if you feel she’s that kind of player. I just feel it’s a risk, considering it allows her to pull off her main tactic if she succeeds, and she’s got longer limbs than you.

Now regarding her fireball, if she throws one, you DON’T want to jump over it, poke past it, or throw a fireball in reaction. Once you throw a fireball, hers will block yours and she can tag you with something during your recovery. What I do (tried it in tournament, and MAN it was effective at annoying my enemy), I wait a bit after her fireball’s out, and I throw mine at such a timing that her’s dissipates JUST before my hadouken would collide it. At this timing, if she tries to do any attack or throw a fireball, she’ll get hit by the fireball. At this point, you’ll have stolen the momentum in the fireball/zoning game.

As you fight, you want to make sure you never get hit by any of her special cancelable moves; once she hits you with one and gets in with an elbow, you’re pretty much screwed because she has a lot of strong offensive options after this. LP Elbow gives her advantage, and MP Elbow gives her a knockdown. Either of these will put you in a blender of mixups. Luckily you have a shoryuken, and this can often buy you some free time if they hesitate to bait it. If you feel, with every fiber of your being, that she will never hesitate to mix you up with an attack, then just let 'er rip! If you can block it, for example if she’s doing cr.mk and buffering it, you can step in and block, and then you’ll be the one with advantage instead.

Eventually during the zoning and neutral game, you’ll likely score a knockdown or gain advantage, either through whiff-punishing her, antiairing her, or punish an unsafe approach. At this point in the game, and around your s.MP range, the complexity of the matchup changes COMPLETELY. You can actually very effectively press the offense on her because of her lack of wake-up tools and general defensive tools. Her HP elbow never hits grounded opponents, and her EX elbow can be grabbed, and can be stuffed on the first couple frames. Try not to go for a jump attack since her antiair is good, but on the ground, you can aggressively push a throw/baiting pressure. Just be careful if she effectively defends and creates space. It’s very dangerous if she tags you with something and starts her own offense. Don’t leave too many gaps for her to make the switcheroo in momentum.

her EX Projectile is one of her most dangerous attacks. If you block it, she is heavily in advantage, so try not to push buttons, but react if you think she’ll go for a throw of some sort. Should you get HIT, keep in mind that she can reset you and cross under with a command dash. Keep an eye out for this tactic whenever you get hit by her EX projectile up-close, and be ready to block a crossup attack.

In short, zone her with hadoukens from 1/3 to 2/3 distance while baiting out unsafe options. Don’t throw a fireball in reaction to hers, but instead wait until it’s about to disappear. Try to whiff-punish her longer reaching limbs, but don’t make it your main focus. Focus on baiting unsafe approach options and stuffing her stray dashes and v-skills. If you get the advantage or knockdown, push on her aggressively due to her lack of defensive options. Watch out for crossup setups if she hits you with her ex projectile up close.

A couple tidbits on the side:
MP Elbow is punishable, but LP Elbow is unsafe. If you block LP Elbow, use a jab to steal the momentum, don’t allow her to start a mixup without having to work for it. If you block MP Elbow, punish it with a combo. I tend to go for TC1, but I BELIEVE you can do cr.MP into TC1 for more optimal damage. To tel the difference between the two, watch how her elbow ends. If it’s in your gut at a lower angle, it’s the LP. If it’s aimed up, toward your head, it’s the unsafe one.
If you block a cancelable normal, I suggest blocking high immediately. She’s got no low normals, but her canceling into her v-skill overhead is always an option, so it doesn’t hurt to simply block high. If she DOES do the v-skill overhead, you can punish her with some beefy damage.

Any key things you guys think I should add to this Laura write-up? Or anything you guys simply think I’m wrong with in this?

[quote=“MochaLatte, post:40, topic:178295”]

Seen some posts about Chun being difficult to deal with in neutral. It’s true that her buttons have more reach, but one mis-spaced normal and she risks getting whiff punished with b.mp into MK Tatsu, which leads into Gecko’s OKI triangle. B.MP can whiff punish every medium or heavy button she uses with consistency, and yes even her crouching normals. If you’re reacting on the first visual cue then you can also catch her forward dash, the only time buffering can be risky if she dashes in and blocks but you’re likely to catch it on recovery if you’re ready to react fast enough. Here’s a match of me vs a chun player. Hate to be a scumbag and upload my wins but I think it can be educational. I plan on uploading other matches win or lose as long as they highlight certain concepts being put to use in real situations.

[/quote] man are you hit confirming those whiff punishes into MK tatsu? How is that even possible? It looks like your b.mp Tatsu where psychic !

This is what I need to learn.

You have to buffer mk tatsu behind the b+mp, if b+mp whiffs, no mk tatsu. If b+mp connects, it’ll go straight into mk tatsu. Not psychic, just good timing and spacing.

So don’t use it up close? Because what if the b.mp is blocked? You’ll get punished after the Tatsu lands

Well up close you need to hit confirm into doing the full target combo. But in this video, he used it to whiff punish limbs from Chun and to punish whiffed throws after shimmying.