Hahah yeah, you got me there, I really miss kara throws. Also, stepkick is ridiculously unsafe here, it’s just stupid. I agree, however, cr.hp is really good.
And s.mk is just amazing, even though it got nerfed in this beta.
Double
Ken hurts my soul in this build 
Can no longer tick throw off of a blocked cross up lk.tatsu. cross up tatsu in general pushes the opponent way the fuck back now.
can also confirm that lk.tatsu has faster start up. Can st.hp>run>lk.tatsu easily now.
Cr.lk is definitely no longer cancelable.
St.lk still cancelable.
Srk juggles in v trigger seem more strict.
Not sure but ex srk seems to have more start up. Can anyone else confirm?
Maybe it is me, but Ken seems pretty fun right now. I love his footsies, AA and VTrigger. Perhaps I’m being to optimistic?
Changes from beta 2 to beta 3:
-
Cr. LP: Startup increased to 4 frames, pushback increased.
-
St. LP: Pushback increased.
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Cr MP: Pushback on hit increased.
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St. MP: Advantage on hit increased to +2, advantage on CH increased to +4, advantage on block increased to 0.
- Back MP: Range decreased. -
TC1: Damage decreased by 20.
-
St. HP: Startup increased to 9 frames, advantage on hit increased to +5, advantage on CH increased to +6.
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Jump HP startup increased to 8 frames.
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Cr. LK: Pushback increased.
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St. LK: Range decreased.
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St. MK: Startup increased to 8 frames, advantage on hit increased to +1, advantage on CH increased to +3, advantage on block increased to -2.
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TC3: Damage decreased by 10.
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Cr. MK: Startup increased to 6 frames.
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Back MK: Damage decreased by 10, advantage on hit decreased to 0, advantage on CH decreased to +2.
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St. HK: Advantage on hit increased to +3, advantage on CH increased to +16, CC now launches the opponent in the air.
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Jump HK startup increased to 8 frames. Pushback on hit increased.
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Forward HK: Startup increased to 23 frames, damage decreased by 20, advantage on block increased to -4.
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Forward Throw: Damage decreased by 10.
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Backward Throw: Damage decreased by 10.
- HP SRK: Damage decreased by 10.
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EX SRK: Recovery increased by 1 frame.
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LK Tatsu: Startup decreased to 3 frames, damage decreased by 10, recovery increased by 1 frame, advantage on block decreased to -8.
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MK Tatsu: Advantage on block decreased to -9.
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HK Tatsu: Recovery decreased by 2.
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EX Tatsu: Startup increased to 8 frames, recovery reduced by one frame.
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Air Tatsu: No longer possible from neutral jump.
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CA: Startup increased, damage decreased by 20.
V-TRIGGER:
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MP SRK: The opponent no longer stays in the air long enough to allow juggling.
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EX SRK: Recovery decreased by 1 frame, damage decreased by 10.
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V-Skill: Ken can no longer cancel it early.
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LK Tatsu: Startup decreased to 3 frames, damage decreased by 10, recovery increased by 1 frame, advantage on block decreased to -7. The opponent now drops faster to the ground.
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MK Tatsu: Advantage on block decreased to -10.
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HK Tatsu: Recovery decreased by 1.
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Air Tatsu: No longer draws the opponent closer on hit.
OTHER:
- V-skill: animation is now slower. Frame duration of run increased.
- EX fireball no longer adds juggle points.
[EDIT]
Feel free to point out anything i might have missed.
Thoughts:
- Frame traps: The increased advantage on st MP is not bad, but the button has a 7 frames startup so it’s mostly good as the last button in a string and not something in between. Since it’s special cancelable anyway, the practical benefits from this buff are IMO insignificant. The startup increase of st. MK and st. HP greatly decreased the use of those buttons in frame traps, as the frame gap is now greater than 5 which means that every character can interrupt them safely by pressing a medium button. To make matters worse, st lk had its range nerfed, so it doesn’t reach after 2 blocked hits. That means you can no longer attempt to safely stop a counterpoke with it.
For example, let’s say you do cr mp -> st lp and the opponent blocks. If you attempt to frame trap with st mk or st hp he can beat you clean with a 5 frame medium button. In beta2 you could still get stuffed by a 4 frame light but it was worth the risk because you could safely press st lk instead and it would either counter hit the opponent’s poke, or get blocked. Now if the opponent delays his poke, he will get a counter hit on you instead. To make matters worse, the pushback of his lights has also been increased. Cr lp -> cr mp -> cr mp is no longer possible, even cr lp -> st lp -> st. lk whiffs now. You best bet for a 3 button trap is cr lp -> cr mp -> st mp but the advantages on CH are pretty small and it doesn’t start with a cr mp so you can’t convert to TC1 on hit. So realistically, you are now stuck with cr. mp -> cr. mp.
On the upside, st. MK is now safe on block (-2), but that doesn’t help much since using it in ranges that could previously result in a punish is not a good idea with an 8 frame startup. In general the changes have hurt his frame trap game a lot.
-
Whiff punish/counter poking: St mk and thus TC3 is slower so there is less things you can punish with it. St hk now launches on CC which makes v-trigger canceling less rewarding damage wise. With a frame advantage of +16 you do have time for some juggle combos but the delicious st. hp -> v-skill -> cr. mp -> TC1 -> special is no longer possible and that’s a pity. Cr mk is now slower, so if you want to counter poke with it you will need to be faster.
-
Damage output: His BnBs have lost 20-50 damage with the TC nerfs, the pushback increases and the lk tatsu nerf. He also lost some very good links and juggles and his v-trigger has been greatly nerfed.
For starters, he can no longer follow up any heavy jump in with cr mp -> TC1, the pushpack puts him out of range of the TC. So you now have to start your combo with a medium jump-in. That means you lose 30 damage from the jump in and 20 from the TC.
Conversion from lights is a lot harder now since cr lk -> st lp -> st. lk whiffs now, so you either have to start with a cr jab or confirm from two lights max (cr lk -> cr/st lp).
Meterless combos with lk tatsu have also been nerfed. Any combo that starts with a jump-in doesn’t leave you enough time to juggle with hp srk after the tatsu, you have to spend the bar and do an ex srk instead. The only way to connect with a regular hp srk is to start the combo from the ground and perform the tatsu point blank.
On the upside, you can now do st hk -> lk tatsu -> ex srk but it’s very situational as the hk must be relatively close (it’s -4 on block) and the 13 frames startup of the move doesn’t give you enough time to confirm from a heavy jump in, you have to commit. Another similar new link is st hp -> st lk but again, st hp is -4 on block so confirming is tricky. You can space both of those moves so that you can only be punished by on jab. Be careful though, in some instances the opponent might be able to punish you with cr jab -> special (-> CA) for your troubles.
His run combos still work, but you now have to go directly to lk tatsu from his run.
His v-trigger is unfortunately not what it used to be. Air tatsus no longer has a vacum effect, so the combos you can do when you land one do significantly less damage. You can no longer juggle with a mp srk. You can’t cancel the run early so you can no longer perform the st. hp -> run -> cr mp link. Those are huge damage nerfs.
Another issue with his damage output is access to combos. With the st lk range nerf, the st hk CC nerf and the frame trap nerfs, the ranges from where he can confirm to good damage have been reduced greatly.
The St. HP changes are weird. +5 on hit should mean that you can now do st. hp -> v-skill -> cr mp … The fact that you can’t means that they changed something with the v-skill. Frame data seem the same, so my guess is that they made it cancel at a later frame of the normal. That’s probably why st hk also received an increase to its hit advantage.
-Setplay: The reduced recovery of the HK and EX tatsus means that we now have more time for setplay.
-Defense: Not a lot has changed. The cr jab nerf makes it harder to challenge some frametraps or interrupt meaty throws but that’s it.
[EDIT]
Forgot to add that back MK overhead meaty to combo is not possible anymore. His forward hk overhead is safer though at -4 on block instead of -6 so despite the increase in start-up and the damage nerf, it’s one of the best overheads in the game.
I feel like I have to work so hard to win with Ken compared to the other characters I’ve used so far in the beta.
Critical Art is slower… I don’t know by how much yet, I’ll probably edit soon, but it definitely isn’t 4-frame start-up, not punishing scissor kick.
Yes this is pretty bad. I am not good at this game, but I have much more trouble with Ken than other chars.
Maybe it’s also because people start to know him from the beta before but I had it super easy with Zangief and went like 15-2 without any training time, did well on day 1 with Laura but with Ken I am getting destroyed left and right.
Again this is the opinion of a pretty bad player but I feel like every button I have is so short I can’t punish shit.
According to fomer frame data was 9:
That had a weird ? on it, and it makes sense. It was able to punish Dictator’s Scissors Kick (Short) on block which was -4. I think I tried something -3 and it didn’t work. More evidence adds up that people were able to link it off from a Low Strong. Pretty sure it was 4 frame start-up.
Double post… see above.
…I wish there was a delete option for multiple posts in a row…
I had noticed the question mark but didnt know of that , nice 
Ken immediately felt useless in this build so I dropped him for Chun. Go go huge winstreaks.
#sorryforbeingafairweatherfriend
For people having trouble playing Ken… stop playing him like sf4!
Thats all. Thank you.
It definitely had 4 frames of startup. I used to confirm it from a cr mp all the time. This is a nerf i am fine with since that super has excellent range. Couple that with such a fast startup it was borderline broken. You can still cancel a st lk to it which also starts at 4 frames but you lose some range and the reversal property. Seems fair to me. If you want to reversal, spend the bar on ex srk.
can someone please list Kens bnb combos and punish combos and mabey a vskill or CA combo? I been playing with him all night, i really like him, i did main ken in sf4 but ive won more in this beta with Ken than any other character…
BnBs:
starting with lights:
Cr. lk -> St. lp -> St. lk -> cancel into special
Cr. lp -> St. lp -> St. lk -> cancel into special
Cr. lk -> Cr./St. lp -> cancel into special
When you are very close try:
Cr. mp -> TC1 (back mp -> hp) -> juggle into special
From further away TC1 wont connect so do:
Cr. mp -> St. lk -> cancel into special
St hp is -4 on block so you can be punished on block. Still, if you aren’t right next to your opponent he we only be able to connect one jab. If he has CA and can cancel from special don’t ever try it. If you land a jump in though, go for it. Cr mp to TC1 used to do a lot more damage but with the damage nerf this is now a good option since it has less scaling.
St. hp -> st. lk -> cancel into special
St. hp -> run -> lk tatsu -> hp srk/ex srk. If your opponent is in the corner do mp srk instead for more meterless damage. You can cancel the st hp directly to lk tatsu if you are very close to the opponent (after a jump in for example). Keep in mind that you get to juggle with a srk only if the tatsu connects both hits.
If you are in v-trigger mode:
St. hp -> run -> cr. mp -> TC1 -> special. This used to hurt a lot and it still does good damage. Note that you can only cancel the run early enough to link that cr mp in v-trigger mode.
If you are further away st mk is you best friend. You can confirm to hk on hit (which is TC3) and cancel into special (mostly hp srk due to range). It starts up at 8 frames so you can punish some stuff with it from afar.
CC combos:
St HP (CC) -> run -> st. jab -> TC1 -> special (unless you have the opponent in the corner, do hk tatsu for the corner carry and extra time to apply pressure on wakeup)
St HP (CC) -> v-trigger -> St. hp -> run -> cr. mp -> TC1 -> special
St HP (CC) -> back mp -> hadouken -> v-trigger -> TC3 -> hp srk -> hp srk (in the corner)
St Hk (CC) -> run -> special
There are probably more stuff you can do with CC roundhouse but i need to test for optimal juggles with and without v-trigger now that it launches. It’s important to know how to OS v-skill and v-trigger in case of CC. If you cancel the move when the animation ends, the v-skill or v-trigger cancel will only take place if there was a counter hit.
Punishes:
Ken only has 3 specials starting at 3 frames, lp srk, lk tatsu and ex srk. Lk tatsu can give you a juggle afterwards but you have to be really close which is usually not the case when you punish. Ex srk has insane range and invincibility (it can pass through projectiles) but it costs one bar.
For 4 frames punishes you have plenty of options. mp srk, hp srk, cr./st. jab and st lk. If you want a reversal, go for a srk. If you want more damage, st lk is special/CA cancelable.
For 5 frames your button is cr mp. Link a TC1 and follow with a special or a CA.
V-trigger:
Don’t forget to enter v-trigger at the first possible opportunity. Best ways to do that are: st lk -> ex hado, cr mp/mk -> hado and CC hp. Follow it up with st hp -> run -> cr mp-> TC1 -> special. You can also do it when you connect with air ex tatsu: Air ex tatsu -> hp srk -> v-trigger -> mp srk -> hp/ex srk for some good damage and style ;).
There are fun combos in 3rd Strike, the metagame doesn’t revolve around them though.
3rd Strike takes the comboing and puts it into perspective and brutalize your opponents mistakes. Ken in this has almost no viable footsies. he has tools that can work, but they are inconsistent.
Tbh you shouldn’t have fun doing combos, thats the part of the game no matter what you should just have down. It’s almost the least important aspect of fighting games in most situations because everyone good will hit them.
On topic of SFV Ken, after these nerfs hes garbage. Obviously we’re gonna wait until release but they better give him a better cr.mk and make it good. Re-animate that ASAP plz.