I understand the complaints but bros. This ain’t the final build, for all we know the weekend beta could be a completely different build.
My 2 cents.
It’s gotea be pretty close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWeYCr2lhuo
@ 0:57
Did St.Roundhouse from Ken as a Crush Counter always put the opponent in the air state? I think it was in ground state during beta 2.
It definitely caused a ground state before, so that’s another nerf 
Goddamn. That’s a strange thing to nerf. Now that means it’s only usable in the corner and now you can’t do any run combos off of it. And it’s not like you could do much before except for cr.lpxxlk.tatsu>fp.srk. But I guess being able to v trigger off of a CC anywhere on screen was too good in Capcom’s eyes.
Man I’m getting sick from all these Ken changes. He was fine in beta 2
If the b. mp whiffed after a neutral jump heavy normal into cr mp, that’s how it’s always been (unless you have the opponent in the corner). No neutral jump tatsu was a universal change.
Ken only has 3 buttons that are plus on block, st lp, cr lp, cr mp. All three are plus 2 on block. So if you want to beat a 3 frame light, your best bet is a cr jab followed by a 5 frame medium which means you must either use a cr mp or a cr mk. Cr mp is a better option since it’s plus on block. If your opponent presses a button, you get a CH but since you are now +6, you can only follow with a cr mp or cr mk. If you don’t have v-trigger and you don’t want to spend meter cancel cr mp into mk tatsu. If you have v-trigger cancel into fb -> v-trigger st hp … and if you have/wanna spend bar, ex srk for damage or ex tatsu for corner carry and wake up pressure (20 less damage). Also keep in mind that if your opponent blocks everything you are in perfect positioning to whiff punish with a sweep.
For Ken’s heavy buttons things aren’t that great either, just because st hp starts at 8 frames. That means you have a 6 frames gap so you lose to 5 frame mediums that most chars have. Still, if you know your opponent’s buttons and spacing or frames are in your favor, cr mp, st jab, st hp is a lethal frametrap that can let you easily cancel to v-skill on CC and follow it with st jab, b. mp, hp, hk tatsu/srk for great damage and positioning. You can also v-trigger cancel for some more damage. Of course, there is always the risk that your opponent doesn’t press anything and they get to whiff punish your st hp if they are ready. That’s why it’s good to sometimes stop the string at st jab or follow it up with the special cancelable, 4 frame startup and safe on block st lk.
Ken’s CH game would become lethal if st hp had a 7 frame startup as no medium would be able to beat it in a frame trap and most lights don’t reach it. You still risk a whiff, but at least you know that if your opponent presses something he will dearly pay for it.
It might have connected during the startup of a jump or a scissor kick. If not though, this is a significant nerf. RH is one of Ken’s best ways to confirm to v-skill (probably not possible if the cr jab nerf is still in effect) or v-trigger on CC.
Nope if you pause the frame before it looks like Bison’s c.MP was coming out.
Man unless there are some significant hidden buffs this would make him without a doubt below quadriplegic Ryu tier.
Did people see if MK Tatsu still hits crouching? They took that from Ryu really curious if Ken still has it. As that was his only safe confirm. cr. MP->st. LK->MK Tatsu. Doing b. MP up close leaves you to close at negative frames for a mixup and you couldn’t cancel into specials because they are all extremely punishable at that range.
st. RH was his only way to confirm damage outside a cr. MP->b.MP. Hopefully st. MK is still usable.
Man like without his st. RH I really don’t know what he does. His frame data was garbage but even if significantly improved I really don’t know. You can still probably normal hit st. RH into v-trigger, but now if you get a CC it fucks up your combo and makes you lose out on like 40% damage and instead get like 25%.
They have to have a finalized version of the game for printing by early January so they only have 3 or so weeks to make changes. After that it is all online patches.
Bummer… Hopefully, they haven’t also nerfed b mp. Ken’s avg damage output would go way down.
Actually one thing to note is that the Bison didn’t immediately get up from the ground. I wonder if it is a hard knockdown?
You have enough time to hit confirm off a single medium normal in this game. Also c.MP combos into itself on counter hit which is also confirmable.
Pretty sure I just said all his combo’s come from cr. MP given I mentioned cr. MP->b.MP and cr. MP->st. LK. With his st. RH being nerfed he has literally 0 good tools now other then maybe st. MK in matchups people can’t low profile it easily and EX SRK for low damage but guaranteed punishes. Everyone in the game is playing MP into something fighter does him no good when EVERY character has that option. His medium punch is not exceptional in any way. It is your unique tools relative to the cast that determines how good a character is.
However if they nerfed Tatsu like Ryu’s he now has to not just confirm his cr. MP but also needs to confirm standing or crouching in a single hit to determine what special to go into. Which is ridiculous. Because … he can’t cancel into fireball at that range without getting guaranteed punished.
Hope they buffed his frame data significantly as now he has nothing other then a good punishment game if everything else is the same as Beta 2. Everything that made him not garbage has been removed at this point if they nerfed his Tatsu like Ryu’s. If he still hits crouching with MK Tasu there he might have something left but st. RH nerf is really really major as that was his only tool in some matchups where his t-rex normals didn’t cut it. st. RH->V-trigger or st. RH->counter hit -> V-skill was the only thing to go to in a lot of situations because every thing else would lose. I get they don’t want us using only that but the move is 13 frames … it wasn’t spammable. They needed to buff his other stuff to a level it would be usable to encourage its use. Now he has nothing in the matchups where he gets significantly out footsied by better buttons especially since he has the worst sweep in the game hitbox and range wise.
Ouch
I see Ken is now enduring the pain :(. Perhaps the Ken thread and Ryu thread can sit down together and have some coffee while we fight each other with miniature twigs.
On side note, as long as Crush Counter St.Fierce V-Skill… xx RH Tatsu combo is still intact along with burst damage in neutral via V-Trigger, I still have interest in him.
Yeah his V-trigger is still strong off an EX fireball in st. LK but now when you do it from st. RH you might get significantly less damage if it hits counter hit which is hilarious. Your counter hit deals less damage then normal hit.
You can actually just stick out c.MP and OS the V-Trigger in the neutral game. If c.MP hits you get a full target combo off of it into pressure.
Which is why I said you have a ton of time to confirm off a medium normal. One button hit confirms is actually very feasible in this game because of the lenient input and also generous hit stop.
the st.lk cancel nerf alone, make him worse than grandpa Ryu
What did they nerf about s.lk?
snip snip