Ken General Thread: Go with the Flow

Street Fighter V Ken
981

Lol

982

Hm I mean st. FP for me was just OS the counter hit option any ways. I never would just run forward unless I confirmed the counter hit. Since you can just OS it every time getting the normal combo was just from an empty buffered run anyways. Not a major change, but still I don’t see the need for the change. Ken was solid, but what makes him solid isn’t that it is his v-trigger activation and st. MK range in my mind.

This is just removing fun from the character. The best combo on jump in was cr. MP->TC->Special anyways since the run counted as a hit of proration that dealt 0 dmg.

Also it was confirmed for ryu and they mentioned it in a video from the sim build. cr. LK isn’t cancellable anymore.

983

Man it took it 2 hours to get the timing down for standing fierce > run> crouch lp. I’m not putting anymore effort into the game until the retail release comes out. I just practice footsies and AA opponents in beta 3

984

I’m gonna sound like a broken record but…What the heck Capcom!?
They truly are taking the ‘Wow’ factor from characters and turning them ‘Meh’

Good news is, we all are saying things like this so I imagine Capcom is SEEING it

I wonder how they’ve changed Ken’s VTrigger stuff, Chun’s got messed with a lot - too much really, she lost tons combo possibilities.

985

You are not always close enough for c.mp though. s.hp/s.hk gave you the same combo at max range.

986

They’ll probably adjust him further and buff some things back surely. No neutral jump EX Tatsu is big, the run combo nerf is just ridiculous and removing flash from a character who is meant to be flashy.

987

Don’t get your hopes up… A wise shoto once said: “Not everyone gets to ‘walk’ well to the path of destiny.”

988

While there is purpose behind the neutral jump -> special nerf, the run combo one seems unintended. I am pretty sure they are trying to make cr jab less dominating in the neutral game, so they are experimenting with a longer start-up. Disabling run combos outside CHs doesn’t seem to be their primary objective and i am pretty sure that they will make the run cancelable one frame sooner if cr lp startup remains at 4 frames till release. If they don’t, Ken’s V-skill will become almost completely useless and that’s something that Capcom doesn’t want.

989

SF hasn’t been ridiculous for a long time. Only Dark Ages SF games have ridiculous stuff. In the new age of fighting games you have to go to anime to get ridiculous characters with really nice buttons, long pressure and nasty setups. Capcom since the beginning of SFIV has opted to go a more fair route with their games. All of the old men that want really oppressive SF still play the old shit on GGPO. It’s just not what happens in new era SF anymore unfortunately.

990

Thing is they can’t do this without enabling st. FP -> TC so if they feel cr. jab NEEDS to be 4 frames then we are just going to be SOL. 3 frame jab isn’t a problem, it is the the shittiness of everything else and rather then fixing everything else they are probably trying to see if they can fix it by just nerfing crouching jabs.

Ther nerf was just to normal hit combo’s, you only get the cr. MP in v-trigger and could only get the target combo on CC. He can still combo from his run with DP’s and step kick, so honestly his damage is pretty similar from the confirm on the meterless version. Just a lot less flashy.

991

Yea, i don’t think this will stick, they are probably trying the easiest way first since they know that a proper fix requires changes to the hurtboxes of both light and medium buttons for all characters (a lot more work).

And yes, i know that allowing linking 4 frame moves will create new combos. Back mp linking is not as big of an issue as cr mp linking after a CC st hp which would allow Ken to do combos that are now V-trigger only and hurt A LOT. That’s why i am pretty sure they will simply revert the cr jab startup nerf if they want to keep Ken’s v-skill relevant to his gameplay.

992

So found a couple more things. So in V-trigger you get a couple more + frames on knockdown with V-trigger RH tatsu compared to normal RH tatsu (probably just keeps them in the air a bit longer or you recover a bit quicker). WIth V-trigger RH-tatsu you can do b. MK overhead and it can’t be jabbed but if you do it outside of v-trigger you can. Apparently those frames on his MK & RH ground tatsu’s actually mean something.

Edit:

Nice found a real vortex when in v-trigger. Covers both tech options into full combo’s but it only works against birdie other characters it kinda works but isn’t as easy. His only way out is Super and that can be baited depending on how he techs. Keeping the specifics on the DL for now. Now just need to cover the no tech option.

993

I discussed with a friend about how Ken is looking pretty ass at the moment and he said there was some sort of “hidden utility” behind him that I was missing. Judging from how the run works, the length of his limbs and the ability to gain V-Trigger I can’t think of anything that really puts him a cut above anybody else in the game right now, anyone have any genuine redeeming qualities other than that his combos are kinda flashy? Apart from decent damage output and some strong confirms I can’t think of anything spectacular.

994

I think he’s really good actually. Big list:

  • s.lk is such a great whiff punish tool, you can cancel it to dp (xx super) and ex.tatsu and it will hit no matter how far you are and on counter hit xx hadouken you can v-trigger. Its also really hard to whiff punish his s.lk

  • s.mk is a good poke/whiff punish tool that you can confirm into the target combo > good dmg

  • his fireballs are good for setting up frame advantage and doing a run into c.mk/f.hk/fake.hk grab

  • great anti air and with V-trigger on you can actually get about 35% damage of an AA mp.srk into ex.srk

  • such a strong invincible move in a game where some characters don’t even have 1 is great

  • his V-trigger is great for comebacks in general

  • jumping ex.tatsu can be done pretty low and is amazing (even more so in V-trigger)

  • good overhead/low/grab mixup game that you always have to keep in mind

  • he has really high damage

  • can confirm super after basicly everything (a really strong one is whiff punishing with s.lk xx h.dp xx super)

  • good crossup that can confirm into mediums/heavies

  • j.hp is kinda silly sometimes because its hitbox beats (late) anti airs

  • good reach on c.mp which has frame advantage and can usually combo from far away due mk.tatsu hitting crouchers

  • ex.tatsu can catch neutral jumps from pretty far

  • you can v-trigger his (invincible!) ex.dp at the end to get a reverse hp.dp juggle for good damage to finish off the round

  • OS run

I feel like having fireballs (just as a poke alone) is a way bigger treat than most people think it is. Ken has so many tools that you’re always just thinking ‘what is he gonna do’? His normals don’t reach that far but they all have their specific uses and once you get familiar in training mode with testing what button beats/whiff punishes other buttons he can become a big treat.

So yeah I think he’s really strong and I don’t mind that they nerf him but I do mind that they nerf him the wrong way (removing fun options/combo’s).

995

Ken is fine. He just needs some polishing. I just wished that in beta 2 that his run had more use for actually building meter than it did for just combo extension. Granted it pretty much gave the best meter build on hit compared to other v-skills. The fact that they seem to be leaning towards run combos only being done during v-trigger makes sense to me. It makes it feel like you have to earn it by successively using your v-skill as well as doing successful CCs.

He’s still a hit confirm monster with good mix ups and a really good tick throw.

996

I don’t think he’s strong, but he fits into the mid-viability section for me at the moment, still gonna play him. A lot of those good points are the strong confirm options I had in mind, and that V-Trigger is fuckin’ dope. There’s just something I feel holding him back, his anti-air game is probably the strongest in the game too right now come to think of it. I think it’s the run, his V-Skill is just…well it feels like a lost utility at the moment other than when in V-Trigger which is earned through the use of the V-Skill to begin with…so yeah that.

997

When you are trying to gauge a character’s strength you have to take into account two more things besides his strengths and weaknesses.

The first is the rest of the cast. No character is good at everything, everyone has weaknesses. Some have good buttons but are slow, some have great pressure but bad anti air and some are named Karin. The fact that his v-skill seems meh right now doesn’t mean he is worse than most other characters simply because he has so many other tools that are very effective in this game. As for his v-skill, the fact that he can OS cancel it from a CC is huge and the only Ken specific reason i can think of they would make cr jap start at 4 frames. You could previously fish for CCs with st hk which has great range and is pretty safe spaced correctly and cancel into run, cr jab etc.

The second thing you have to factor in, is how well a char can mask his weaknesses. Ken’s biggest weakness is that most of his normals are very unsafe on block or have short range. You can mitigate both of those somewhat with proper spacing which becomes easier thanks to his good walking speed and dashes. But most importantly, Ken has excellent corner carry. You only need one confirm into tatsu and you have your opponent near the corner and on his back. This lets you dictate the spacing game and enables you to actually use his better normals at optimal distances.

Ken won’t be the easier character to master and he wont be the absolute best but he is really strong right now.

998

Things that really set him apart.

  1. Everything in this game is unsafe. He has the best punish game there is with 3f EX DP, FP DP, and st. MK. Literally he can punish 95% of specials on block even if optimally spaced. Man he can punish EVERY birdie headbutt with st. MK for like 25% damage meterless.
  2. He has a bunch of good empty buffer normals. I think a lot of people are using cr. MK still and that is just a bad button. st. LK, st. MK, and st. RH all do a lot more for him and st. FP from some distances doesn’t seem like a terrible option either. st. MK being hit confirmable is actually a really good TC now that it forces standing.
  3. He gets pressure off a sweep which no other character does.
  4. He has some of the highest damage in the game off v-trigger.
  5. Basic throw/hit mixup is really strong in this game and he has a real vortex against quick rise even out of v-trigger and inside v-trigger he can make it work against back roll also.
  6. Against quick rise he has some pretty strong mixups in general.
  7. st. RH -> v-trigger is DUMB. It is SOOO easy to confirm and you get 40% meterless off of it.
  8. His LP Fireball is actually really good from full screen because he run in behind it safely like a little boom.
  9. cr. FP is probably the best anti-air in the game.
  10. OS CC st. FP is actually a pretty decent option if well spaced so that you will catch extended pokes. I’ve CC’d Chun’s st. MK into a stepkick that combo’d before from like almost half screen.

Honestly I feel the strongest characters right now are
Mika, Chun, Ken, Karin, Birdie (man st. MP is dumb, but he seems to have a hard time confirming stuff a bit)

Rashid is a bit of a wild card for me, dont’ really know how he will be. Lots of good stuff on paper, but not sure how punishable it all is and whatnot.

Alot of his bad buttons talk I think is because people were using cr. MK, that button is GOD awful. I mean he can literally be losing the entire round then hit a v-trigger combo into 50/50 and if you guess wrong your stunned and dead. He has a lot of empty bufferable normals in his st. MP and cr. MP that will stuff a lot of stuff.His st. RH can be safely spaced against everyone but himself (EX DP is dumb).

Honestly, If you weren’t ending your combo’s in MK Tatsu you were probably doing him wrong. MK tatsu leaves SOOOOO many offensive options afterwards. Not to say RH tatsu doesn’t have a purpose, but FP DP is pretty much terribly subpar as a combo ender outside v-trigger. He really shouldn’t ever end non-corner combo’s in anything but Tatsu.

II feel he just is much more focused on hit confirming this time around and if you mess that up you lose ALOT of life.

999

Noob question guys :

I see people using cr.mp and then the TC with b.mp - st.fp all the time but when I do my combos most of the times it feels like the TC MK-RH does more damage (and is actually even easier to do).

For example here is a combo I find pretty cool to activate your v-trigger if you have one EX :

j.fp (can be j.mk crossup too but less dmg) - cr.mp xx punch TC xx FP.DP -> v-trigger cancel after first hit -> mp.DP (two hits) -> EX.DP : this does 366 damage - 504 stun.

if you do exactly the same combo but you replace "cr.mp xx punch TC " by “kick TC” it does 388 dmg - 503 stun.

And this is just an example, with most combos I tried I get similar results.

Is it all about hit confirming or is there something else I am missing?

1000

It’s because you can confirm the cr.mp from close range, st.mk is more of a mid-range poking tool that confirms into your TC2. Mid-screen = st.mk, close range, need to apply pressure = cr.mp