Ken General Thread: Go with the Flow

[James2814]

https://youtu.be/OF1CiIymdKU
It’s not in english but momochi gives a short breakdown during a match in this new footage.

[Plaid_Unicorn]

No Ken in this six flag build guys, sorry

[notGeckoRoman]

https://youtu.be/OF1CiIymdKU
It’s not in english but momochi gives a short breakdown during a match in this new footage.

Saw this posted somewhere else and did a breakdown of what it showed off:

The run cancel combo out of HP is sick. It’s cool to know that, as things currently stand, Ken can, st.Hp > V-skill > cr.Lp, and from there combo. Super freaking dope.

It also looks like ken gets SRK off of lk.Tatsu midscreen. Very much a return to the juggles style of 3s for him.

Dash is longer than I thought too, though I hadn’t really noticed it either way before.

I like how they somehow made the SRK visuals more fiery in V-Trigger. It’s like a god damn mixtape mode.

New overhead animation is super crispy, and the feint seems less telegraphed to me, which is cool.

Kens EX Divekick thing got straight up, beat by regular tatsu in air, so the thing plausibly doesn’t have the strongest hitboxes. It does cause a juggle state if you catch them out of the air with it though, so that’s sick. I like that juggle state is applied a little more liberally in this game. Personal preference, but yeah, it’s a cool thing.

It seemed like Momochi’s standard fatty punish, like off of his opponent whiffing SRK, was, st.Hp > V-Skill > cr.lp xx lk.tatsu > ex SRK, which is pretty fatty damage and looks cool, works mid screen, and only burns one bar of meter. Ken is kind of a gross monster, lol.

Didn’t notice the first time, but you can cancel sweep with V-Skill, a la Abel.

And V-Triggered fireballs do mad fucking grey life.

Good stuff to Momochi for showing off a lot of shit within like, the two games he was allowed.

[Sephiroth73003]

here @ 1:03 I see a good use for his V-skill, were you attempting to use it as a hit confirm? Ryu doesn’t seem to recovery before Ken is back in his face after doing c.mk > V-skill, this could be the way to make it safe no? yeah, it definitely looks like Ryu hasn’t recovered yet, I think he has to guess between a throw or to block, maybe he has enough time to do a DP? Also, what uses does his step kick have now that its link to V-skill? Max range poke still viable?

Heck even at 0:46 C.mp > V-skill on block looks viable. Ryu definitely looks to recovery out of block stun early enough to DP, but it can be used to bait reversals as well as continue pressure.

All that can be mashed out of or punished. His opponent gave him to much respect. When you play online scrubs or people mashing incessantly like I did at evo you’ll see it is punishable as sin. If you have a respectful opponent who won’t let go of down back it has its use as a mixup, but this is like Nash teleport mixup you get used to it pretty quick. Only thing I saw was st. FP (not b.FP) seemed to not be to bad according to Momochi in his vid and I didn’t try that normal. cr. MK, b. FP, st. RH and everything else though is definitely not solid on block. Also I tried run DP a few times and just got hit everytime, so either I got hit before I could cancel it or you can’t cancel into specials. A guy at evo told me you just CAN’T cancel into specials and that was without me prompting him with the question so I’m not sure which one it is for sure but you can’t b.FP->V-skill or cr. MK->V-skill without risking getting full combo’d. I can’t imagine cr. MP has more blockstun than his fierces.

Honestly if you are going to do redash pressure it might be better to use it than his dash, but his dash seemed faster than the minimum time you had to spend in his run before he cancelled or pretty darn close to the same time. I just didn’t feel it was a solid option when playing him given the type of opponents I was playing and if day 1 stuff can blow it up I can’t imagine it will suddenly become solid at high level.

It is going to be a hit confirm tool more than a mixup tool, it isn’t like Abels f. MK where you get close then are 0 on block and can block. Since you can’t cancel into block either they can just super or uppercut you there and there is nothing you can do to defend.

[Slimztheguy]

True true I forgot to factor in the lack of long hit stun with strong/forward normals. That being said cancelling Cr.fp or cl.fp seem likely to be the way to go.

His dash is also being overlooked (it looks really good imo)

Fierce punch> v skill> Cr.lp>dp/lk tatsu> dp looks to be a very strong hit confirm for good dmg.

Ohhh and did anyone catch st.lp>b.mp>b.fp>RH tatsu work mid screen? I would timestamp but I’m posting from mobile.

[OmniCloud]

here @ 1:03 I see a good use for his V-skill, were you attempting to use it as a hit confirm? Ryu doesn’t seem to recovery before Ken is back in his face after doing c.mk > V-skill, this could be the way to make it safe no? yeah, it definitely looks like Ryu hasn’t recovered yet, I think he has to guess between a throw or to block, maybe he has enough time to do a DP? Also, what uses does his step kick have now that its link to V-skill? Max range poke still viable?

Heck even at 0:46 C.mp > V-skill on block looks viable. Ryu definitely looks to recovery out of block stun early enough to DP, but it can be used to bait reversals as well as continue pressure.

All that can be mashed out of or punished. His opponent gave him to much respect. When you play online scrubs or people mashing incessantly like I did at evo you’ll see it is punishable as sin. If you have a respectful opponent who won’t let go of down back it has its use as a mixup, but this is like Nash teleport mixup you get used to it pretty quick. Only thing I saw was st. FP (not b.FP) seemed to not be to bad according to Momochi in his vid and I didn’t try that normal. cr. MK, b. FP, st. RH and everything else though is definitely not solid on block. Also I tried run DP a few times and just got hit everytime, so either I got hit before I could cancel it or you can’t cancel into specials. A guy at evo told me you just CAN’T cancel into specials and that was without me prompting him with the question so I’m not sure which one it is for sure but you can’t b.FP->V-skill or cr. MK->V-skill without risking getting full combo’d. I can’t imagine cr. MP has more blockstun than his fierces.

Honestly if you are going to do redash pressure it might be better to use it than his dash, but his dash seemed faster than the minimum time you had to spend in his run before he cancelled or pretty darn close to the same time. I just didn’t feel it was a solid option when playing him given the type of opponents I was playing and if day 1 stuff can blow it up I can’t imagine it will suddenly become solid at high level.

It is going to be a hit confirm tool more than a mixup tool, it isn’t like Abels f. MK where you get close then are 0 on block and can block. Since you can’t cancel into block either they can just super or uppercut you there and there is nothing you can do to defend.

Seems kinda balanced then. I mean, Ken is still a shoto, I’m not sure I want his game to revolve around stop and go pressure runs. Just want to make sure step kick is still viable, but it’s clear you definitely have to space the v-skill out. Ken’s dash and own zoning game should make his well rounded, hit confirming off his normals really shouldn’t be a problem with that quick dash of his, should be a strong footsie character.

I see what you mean though, counter RH is basically GG, he can absolutely wreck you afterwards.

[Chriztoph]

He’s wearing his work out shirt outside and dyes his hair blonde but doesn’t do his eye brows.
Ken seems like a serious bro.
All he needs is a v-skill of protein shakes, steroids and jager bombs.

[bisonator]

He probably bleached his 'brows once, got some in his eye and thought… ‘Dang, I’d rather take a hadouken than get bleach in my eyes again’.

Or he saw Miley Cyrus and thought 'bkeached ‘brows just look… off’

[iBryan]

Went 19-0 with Ken at Evo. Never played a big name though. Kens V-Trigger seems pretty strong, but his V-skill seems to be lacking, probably worst one in the game currently unless there ends ups being some cool tech with it (entirely possible).

1. His target combo is unsafe unless cancelled into EX fireball (normal fireball even midscreen is punishable on block by anything at that range as his fireballs have almost no pushback currently).
2. His EX divekick is 2 hits so is advantage even if you hit them near the top of their head. Decent mixup between crossup j.MK, j. RH, and this.
3. His sweep is just like Ryu’s in terms of being highly punishable.
4. His EX-dp is a really solid punisher because of speed and how it lunges forward.
5. His Fierce tatsu only combos from fierce attacks, but EX tatsu combo’d from medium kick.
6. Shoto crouching MK range is kinda meh in this game, but for Ken you get a hit confirmable 50%+ damage starter with low forward->fireball->V-Trigger cancel
7. His v-trigger is actually really solid because his normal fireball becomes like shakunatsu and all his specials get better speed and recovery. LP DP->EX DP is a legit combo when activated.
8. b.MP seems to be + on block like it was in 3rd strike.
9. cr.MP->b.MP combos from a pretty good range compred to what you would expect and b.MP->b.FP never seemed to whiff even when really far.
10. b.FP is a really strong anti-air for that anti-crossup range like in SFII.
11. Air tatsu can crossup but only did it once at the right timing where it hit them and didn’t get a combo from it with cr. MK easily could have been my timing.
12. Neutral jumping throws can lead to basically a free win if they have more than 5-10% stun and you have v-trigger activation available. 50% damage + stun into new combo is pretty much death.
13. cr. MK->Fireball seems to combo now at pretty much all ranges.
14. Normal->V-skill cancel is pretty bad to the point of almost being unusable since he can’t cancel into specials like LP dp and seems to only be able to cancel into normals where he will be MAD negative on block. His dash is so fast the difference between v-skill run stop and just dashing is pointless for the added risk his v-skill adds.
15. st. RH->Counter hit->V-skill is pretty high damage but you have to hit confirm it as it is negative on block not enough time to figure out how practical hit confirming it was. That and the above momochi combos are the only potential uses I currently see for his v-skill its potential as a pressure tool is pretty gimmicky.

Personally I don’t see him randomly v-trigger cancelling like some characters and using it as a free super given each round as after activating it he is VERY scary and the MASSIVE combo damage you get from a fireball cancel into it is frankly absurd. You can do cr. MK->Fireball->V-trigger->cr.MP->b.MP->b. FP->LP DP->EX DP for over 50%.

Damn dude, did you have a notepad with you while playing? :lol: Good stuff though, best analysis I’ve seen for any character in these forums thus far.

[iBryan]

Went 19-0 with Ken at Evo. Never played a big name though. Kens V-Trigger seems pretty strong, but his V-skill seems to be lacking, probably worst one in the game currently unless there ends ups being some cool tech with it (entirely possible).

1. His target combo is unsafe unless cancelled into EX fireball (normal fireball even midscreen is punishable on block by anything at that range as his fireballs have almost no pushback currently).
2. His EX divekick is 2 hits so is advantage even if you hit them near the top of their head. Decent mixup between crossup j.MK, j. RH, and this.
3. His sweep is just like Ryu’s in terms of being highly punishable.
4. His EX-dp is a really solid punisher because of speed and how it lunges forward.
5. His Fierce tatsu only combos from fierce attacks, but EX tatsu combo’d from medium kick.
6. Shoto crouching MK range is kinda meh in this game, but for Ken you get a hit confirmable 50%+ damage starter with low forward->fireball->V-Trigger cancel
7. His v-trigger is actually really solid because his normal fireball becomes like shakunatsu and all his specials get better speed and recovery. LP DP->EX DP is a legit combo when activated.
8. b.MP seems to be + on block like it was in 3rd strike.
9. cr.MP->b.MP combos from a pretty good range compred to what you would expect and b.MP->b.FP never seemed to whiff even when really far.
10. b.FP is a really strong anti-air for that anti-crossup range like in SFII.
11. Air tatsu can crossup but only did it once at the right timing where it hit them and didn’t get a combo from it with cr. MK easily could have been my timing.
12. Neutral jumping throws can lead to basically a free win if they have more than 5-10% stun and you have v-trigger activation available. 50% damage + stun into new combo is pretty much death.
13. cr. MK->Fireball seems to combo now at pretty much all ranges.
14. **Normal->V-skill cancel is pretty bad to the point of almost being unusable since he can’t cancel into specials like LP dp and seems to only be able to cancel into normals where he will be MAD negative on block. His dash is so fast the difference between v-skill run stop and just dashing is pointless for the added risk his v-skill adds. **
15. st. RH->Counter hit->V-skill is pretty high damage but you have to hit confirm it as it is negative on block not enough time to figure out how practical hit confirming it was. That and the above momochi combos are the only potential uses I currently see for his v-skill its potential as a pressure tool is pretty gimmicky.

Personally I don’t see him randomly v-trigger cancelling like some characters and using it as a free super given each round as after activating it he is VERY scary and the MASSIVE combo damage you get from a fireball cancel into it is frankly absurd. You can do cr. MK->Fireball->V-trigger->cr.MP->b.MP->b. FP->LP DP->EX DP for over 50%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAuYyL9Xsk

here @ 1:03 I see a good use for his V-skill, were you attempting to use it as a hit confirm? Ryu doesn’t seem to recovery before Ken is back in his face after doing c.mk > V-skill, this could be the way to make it safe no? yeah, it definitely looks like Ryu hasn’t recovered yet, I think he has to guess between a throw or to block, maybe he has enough time to do a DP? Also, what uses does his step kick have now that its link to V-skill? Max range poke still viable?

Heck even at 0:46 C.mp > V-skill on block looks viable. Ryu definitely looks to recovery out of block stun early enough to DP, but it can be used to bait reversals as well as continue pressure.

Hey OmniCloud. Remember PlatinumBD, Vega player from GameFaqs? Haha, it’s been a while. (New PSN ID in Sig)

After watching that video I’m not too sure how I feel about Ken’s step kick. In SFIV it was easily one of the best normals in the game, however with it only being able to be used after V-Trigger, it’s way too predictable IMO to hold anything near the value it previously had.

[Slimztheguy]

^ not really predictable when it has the same start up animation as run.

It becomes a mini mind game, (is he gonna step kick to control distance, or is he running in for a throw, frame trap setup/string pressure etc.)

With that being said, it’s definitely not as strong as SF4 step kick, but we have a much faster f.rh Though. Honestly if you’re good there shouldn’t be any major issues when it comes to getting in on your opponent with Kens sf5 toolset. GDLK forward, and backdash, a damn run lol, and a divekick esque air ex tatsu.

I’m beginning to realize We’re gonna have to run through alot of bandwagon Kens hahaha.

[Shinebox]

Can Ken Kara throw from his T+HK?

[iBryan]

^ not really predictable when it has the same start up animation as run.

It becomes a mini mind game, (is he gonna step kick to control distance, or is he running in for a throw, frame trap setup/string pressure etc.)

With that being said, it’s definitely not as strong as SF4 step kick, but we have a much faster f.rh Though. Honestly if you’re good there shouldn’t be any major issues when it comes to getting in on your opponent with Kens sf5 toolset. GDLK forward, and backdash, a damn run lol, and a divekick esque air ex tatsu.

I’m beginning to realize We’re gonna have to run through alot of bandwagon Kens hahaha.

That’s for sure… me being one of them haha. His new design, moveset, tools, and hair were too much for me to resist :lol:

That’s a good point, I just think once SFV gets some mileage, high level players will start punishing that step kick if it isn’t precisely executed. In SFIV you could throw it out more loosely and I don’t think that will be the case in this game.

[Frost]

^ not really predictable when it has the same start up animation as run.

It becomes a mini mind game, (is he gonna step kick to control distance, or is he running in for a throw, frame trap setup/string pressure etc.)

With that being said, it’s definitely not as strong as SF4 step kick, but we have a much faster f.rh Though. Honestly if you’re good there shouldn’t be any major issues when it comes to getting in on your opponent with Kens sf5 toolset. GDLK forward, and backdash, a damn run lol, and a divekick esque air ex tatsu.

I’m beginning to realize We’re gonna have to run through alot of bandwagon Kens hahaha.

If you’re in range for a throw, you aren’t going to step-kick unless they buff the block stun by a lot. The distance for a “perfect” step-kick doesn’t really allow Ken to create a mind game with anything other than bait the counter to the step-kick(Buffered jabs, strongs, if they’re crazy maybe a DP once in a blue moon) when you see that run from around half-screen, you pretty much know you’re getting step-kicked. It looks good as a space closer, but not the almighty god button it was in SF4 with application in every aspect of neutral.

Can Ken Kara throw from his T+HK?

I remember people testing that out at E3 or something and they said that they couldn’t find a kara throw for Ken, I think? Could be wrong. If he doesn’t we still have the run to push a 50/50 on the opponent anyway.

[Slimztheguy]

I completely agree not as good as it is in SF4. My main point is with the options he has now, he won’t have to depend on the step kick as much due to having more and faster mobility options on the ground in sf5.

[Frost]

I can agree, all he seems to have gotten is more options for attacking, the only bad things I’ve seen are a shorter cr.mk and a slower step-kick. Aside from that, his fireball seems to have improved, his target combo actually looks good now, his EX air Tatsu is still crazy good and the general mobility is better than it’s ever been, and his EX Shoryuken looks like a crazy good punish option that deals big damage. Ken looks strong and he’s only going to get stronger once we get lab time with him, the mix-ups will be real.

[otori]

Can Ken Kara throw from his T+HK?

IIRC people tried extensively and couldn’t get it to work. Max’s video also covers this (again, iirc).

He probably has karas from other normals like the rest of the cast tho.

[Frost]

I doubt they’ll give him anything decent because of his run~throw game. Maybe his crouching normals offer a good kara? Throw comes out now if you press throw whilst crouching right? You should be able to crouch kara.

[NickRocks]

He’s wearing his work out shirt outside and dyes his hair blonde but doesn’t do his eye brows.
Ken seems like a serious bro.
All he needs is a v-skill of protein shakes, steroids and jager bombs.

thats why im gonna play him, and pound a protein shake in between rounds. you mad?

[OmniCloud]

Went 19-0 with Ken at Evo. Never played a big name though. Kens V-Trigger seems pretty strong, but his V-skill seems to be lacking, probably worst one in the game currently unless there ends ups being some cool tech with it (entirely possible).

1. His target combo is unsafe unless cancelled into EX fireball (normal fireball even midscreen is punishable on block by anything at that range as his fireballs have almost no pushback currently).
2. His EX divekick is 2 hits so is advantage even if you hit them near the top of their head. Decent mixup between crossup j.MK, j. RH, and this.
3. His sweep is just like Ryu’s in terms of being highly punishable.
4. His EX-dp is a really solid punisher because of speed and how it lunges forward.
5. His Fierce tatsu only combos from fierce attacks, but EX tatsu combo’d from medium kick.
6. Shoto crouching MK range is kinda meh in this game, but for Ken you get a hit confirmable 50%+ damage starter with low forward->fireball->V-Trigger cancel
7. His v-trigger is actually really solid because his normal fireball becomes like shakunatsu and all his specials get better speed and recovery. LP DP->EX DP is a legit combo when activated.
8. b.MP seems to be + on block like it was in 3rd strike.
9. cr.MP->b.MP combos from a pretty good range compred to what you would expect and b.MP->b.FP never seemed to whiff even when really far.
10. b.FP is a really strong anti-air for that anti-crossup range like in SFII.
11. Air tatsu can crossup but only did it once at the right timing where it hit them and didn’t get a combo from it with cr. MK easily could have been my timing.
12. Neutral jumping throws can lead to basically a free win if they have more than 5-10% stun and you have v-trigger activation available. 50% damage + stun into new combo is pretty much death.
13. cr. MK->Fireball seems to combo now at pretty much all ranges.
14. **Normal->V-skill cancel is pretty bad to the point of almost being unusable since he can’t cancel into specials like LP dp and seems to only be able to cancel into normals where he will be MAD negative on block. His dash is so fast the difference between v-skill run stop and just dashing is pointless for the added risk his v-skill adds. **
15. st. RH->Counter hit->V-skill is pretty high damage but you have to hit confirm it as it is negative on block not enough time to figure out how practical hit confirming it was. That and the above momochi combos are the only potential uses I currently see for his v-skill its potential as a pressure tool is pretty gimmicky.

Personally I don’t see him randomly v-trigger cancelling like some characters and using it as a free super given each round as after activating it he is VERY scary and the MASSIVE combo damage you get from a fireball cancel into it is frankly absurd. You can do cr. MK->Fireball->V-trigger->cr.MP->b.MP->b. FP->LP DP->EX DP for over 50%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAuYyL9Xsk

here @ 1:03 I see a good use for his V-skill, were you attempting to use it as a hit confirm? Ryu doesn’t seem to recovery before Ken is back in his face after doing c.mk > V-skill, this could be the way to make it safe no? yeah, it definitely looks like Ryu hasn’t recovered yet, I think he has to guess between a throw or to block, maybe he has enough time to do a DP? Also, what uses does his step kick have now that its link to V-skill? Max range poke still viable?

Heck even at 0:46 C.mp > V-skill on block looks viable. Ryu definitely looks to recovery out of block stun early enough to DP, but it can be used to bait reversals as well as continue pressure.

Hey OmniCloud. Remember PlatinumBD, Vega player from GameFaqs? Haha, it’s been a while. (New PSN ID in Sig)

After watching that video I’m not too sure how I feel about Ken’s step kick. In SFIV it was easily one of the best normals in the game, however with it only being able to be used after V-Trigger, it’s way too predictable IMO to hold anything near the value it previously had.

Long time man! yeah I remember you, good times back then '-) It’s looking like we’re going to have a better game here though man, can’t wait.

Salty about step kick and kara throw though. Step kick maybe needs a bit more advantage on block maybe, but I’m going to miss grabbing people so much with ken. But his forward Grab isn’t even the same now, he knee bashes you.