This is a Ken FAQ I’ve been working on. It’s pretty much done. I’l l leave it up here for a few days just in case someone wants to contribute more constructive comments, point out errors, or make other suggestions.
Here’s some input:
-in the ‘crouching’ section, no need to add the ‘far and close’ part. That only applies to Dhalsim really.
-close MK is indeed a good anti-cross up, but then again so is close HP. Close MK might hit higher up though.
-should be noted that both throws easily set up the 2p cross up. Works even from midscreen if you use a jumping hurricane kick to get into the corner.
-level 1 shinryuken can be used to chip an opponent to death.
-doing the air hurricane right before Ken reaches the peak of his jump will get you the most height and range, as opposed to tigerkneeing it.
-midrange RC fireballs are one of Ken’s most important tools in his ground game. Yes, they can be risky, but they’re often Ken’s only solution when he’s badly outranged on the ground. Think of them as an invincible Sagat standing forward: long range, high priority (invincible), risky if used predictably. The fact that they can also be used to bait rolls and jumps can be used to your advantage.
-some comments on your C-groove cancel combos:
shorts, lv2 super, cancel to funky kick, jab DP yadayada is better against a cornered opponent. The whiffed funky kick might give Ken the necessary meter to get the shinryuken after the jab DP.
shorts, lv2 super, cancel to jab roll, then strong DP is often better midscreen. Fierce DP only does 200 more, and the chances of you messing up and only getting 2 hits are pretty high. If you get only 2 hits of the fierce DP, then strong DP will do quite a bit more. Also, strong DP perfectly sets up the Cheap Ass Crossup, where Ken walks forward a little bit then does a super deep jumping forward cross up. Totally random which way to block, and if it hits Ken can do close roundhouse into fierce DP for a guaranteed dizzy. (the whole sequence does 73 stun)
when finishing the combo with a 3 hit fierce DP, the opponent will often fall behind Ken in the air. When this happens, Ken can immediately hold up after the DP for a free jump in most of the time (which I’m pretty sure most of you still don’t understand). It all depends on where in the air you DPed the opponent, but most of the time it’ll work.
The corner level 2 combo into level 1 shinryuken also sets up the Cheap Ass Crossup. After the shinryuken, walk back a little bit and cross up with forward. If it hits, close rh into fierce DP for a guaranteed dizzy (71 stun for the whole sequence).
-If for whatever reason your combo off the Cheap Ass Crossup doesn’t dizzy (like you only comboed off of 2 shorts or something), go for an overhead to get the dizzy. While f+mk might work, I would suggest doing 3 shorts into hcf+rh, then hold for the overhead. Pretty sneaky.
-against Blanka, when you block an electricity I would recommend alpha countering it usually. Not only do you avoid the chip damage, you also reverse momentum and get to cross him up for free.
-Blanka whiffed low fierce is very easy to punish with either roundhouse or f+roundhouse.
dp+p
LP 2/18/24 down/-18
air 7~35
2 full body, 18 lower body
MP 2/[4/20]/32 down/-32
air 7~49
2 full body, 24 lower body
HP 2/[2/2/26]/39 down/-41
6 full body, 26 lower
HP version is perfect anti-air and cannot be grabbed by any super grabs, including Raging Demon.
hcf+MK
400+900 -8/-8
5/[2/5]/27
Cancelable into overhead on frame 7
hcf+HK
1400 down/-7
10/4/27
Cancelable into overhead on frame 14
hcf+K, hold kick
1000 -2/-2
26/3/23
qcb+K
LK 500+300x2 -3/-9
2/[3]/7/[2]/2/[2]/17
MK 500+300x8 -3/-33
2/[3]/7/whole bunch of 2’s/17
HK 500+300x10 -3/-41
2/[3]/7/even more 2’s/17
air
700x4 +13/+13
4/2’s until you land/7
rdp+K
LK 1300,1200 down/-11
21/17/24
MK 1400/1400 down/-5
29/12/24
HK 1500,1500 down/-4
34/10/24
*notes:
-rdp+LK actually hits faster than Ken’s f+MK overhead.
-Opponent cannot safe fall from the knockdown this move gives.
qcb+P
MP 8/24/10
HP 9/30/10
The book says you’re able to do something a couple frames something after the startup of this move. What however, I have no idea. I can’t understand the Japanese.
I think the frame data you put for the f+MK overhead is wrong. The book says it goes 1000 damage, 28/5/20.
ina zumi kakato wari… I say just call it the kaka kick. :lol:
Wow, Thanks a lot Bucktooth and KCXJ.
The feedback has been excellent. The quality of the information is just astounding. I’ll incorporate all this useful info in my guide soon and then I’ll post a new draft.
I do have some questions:
Could you elaborate on this? I don’t follow how I get a free jump in.
Am I right to assume it is -4 and -41?
Anyway thanks again, i’ll have an update soon.
Have the training dummy do a normal jump in attack on you. Now wait until the last possible second and do a super deep, anti-air dp+HP. See how Ken falls behind? Hold up on the joystick as even before you land and you’ll mess with which way the opponent needs to block as he gets up.
You can do the same thing with a level 1 shinryuken. Hold up on the joystick after you’re done mashing. Try it out. It’s crazy! :lol:
I removed the faq on this message as it seemed unecessary.
The latest update of the faq can be found on the first message of this thread.
That’s not exactly what the Free Jump In is. Here’s the easiest simulation to try to figure it out yourself:
- go to training mode
- pick Sagat
- pick C-Rolento as the dummy
- switch the dummy to “record”
- hit Sagat with a full set of patriot circles, then immediately hold up/forward to jump right after. Hit strong on the way down, then hold block for a second or two.
- switch the dummy to “play”
- get hit by the combo, block the jumping strong
- get hit by the combo, try to uppercut/super the jumping strong
What happens? If you block or get hit by the jumping strong, everything seems normal. Just an extra-deep jump in. If you uppercut/super however, Rolento lands in time to block. Hence, 100% free jump in. No risk involved.
Now, when applied to Ken it’s the same thing. There’s often times where your fierce uppercut perfectly sets up a Free Jump In by holding straight up. In addition to that Ken gets some funky cross up weirdness going on too.
Thanks Bucktooth,
So the “free jump-in” is something like this: (this is how I plan to put it in my guide).
Holding up can also lead to what’s known as a “free jump-in”. This is a no risk jump in, i.e., a jump in that cannot be punished (except perhaps by 2 or fewer frame moves like Ken’s Shouryuu Ken). The reason why the jump cannot be punished is by holding up before you touch the ground, you insure you are jump at the earliest time possible. Now when falling, your landing approaches about the same time as the opponent is getting up and returning to neutral state, so that if you throw out a vertical jump attack it is very meaty and you land right afterwards. In CvS2, if you attack mid-air, upon landing you cannot perform any action for 2 frames. Because your attack was very meaty, maybe even on the last possible hit frame, you essentially just can’t do anything for only 2 frames. Almost all wake ups in the game have a longer start up time than 2 frames, including supers, so by the time the hit frames of the wake up attack are present, your 2 frame disadvantage has already worn off allowing you to block. In short, if the opponent didn’t do a wake up you get a deep jump-in attack, but if the opponent did do a wake up, you block it.
Yep I use both those. Also after a jab DP, you do sj MK at exact right time, it seems to be a free jump in. After Rolento trip wire super… he has kind of a random times when his super knocks the opponent down backwards towards the direction you are at… if you hold back and walk with the body, then jump at the right time and do Strong… free jumpin… and I haven’t figured out whether or not I can get crossup glitch. You can do free jumpins with punch throw in corner with Ken and Rolento (hence my team of C Ken/Rolento/Sagat)… and mix it up with 2nd player crossup glitch… its really fucking hard to block.
Random thoughts + more frame data
I think j.LK is an underrated move.
toward j.LK
600 damage
3/22 (3 frame startup, 22 frame duration)
See the frame data? 3 frames startup is really fast. In situtions where you’re jumping in from the front, this can be quite useful. Fake as if you’re about to do empty jump-in, throw but do a really late j.LK instead. Try this mindgame off the knockdown setup…
-dp+LP…
(a) empty jump in, go low
(b) wait, jump in, late j.LK, combo
© empty jump in, throw (only works once you’ve gotten the opponent scared of your of your first two options)
Remember to walk forward and vary your timing/distancing etc… to always keep your opponent guessing as well.
After hitting with the deep j.LK, you can:
-combo/blocked string
-slight wait, go for counter hit
-slight wait, throw
The combos to use are:
-close s.HP xx hcf+LK
-d.LK, d.LK/s.LK xx hcf+LK/super
Both of these combos start off with 3 frame attacks, and since you’re comboing off a light jumping attack (only 13 frames of hit stun, 15 frames of forced block stun), you’re going to need as fast a normal move as you can get. When you don’t care about how the opponent reacts and just want a blocked string, go for the close s.HP xx funny kick. When you want the hit confirmation though (ie. you have level 2 ready), always go for the two crouching shorts instead.
Oh yeah, don’t ever let your opponent tech roll btw. All this free jump-in, late j.LK junk is useless unless you cover your basics first…
vertical and toward j.LP
500 damage
3/22
Situations to use this over j.LK?
vertical j.HK
1400,1300 damage
3/8
Three frame anti-air. Excellent for defense. Can also be used offensively in those “hold up, crazy random cross-up” situations as well.
-deep dp+HP (opponent goes under you), hold up on joystick, deep falling vertical j.HK…
Again, combo, counter hit, or throw, it’s totally up to you afterwards.
toward j.HP
1200 damage
5/8
Move has higher priority than j.HK (?). I use this when I jump in against Guile. I might be wrong, but I always feel as if I had done a j.HK, I would of been anti-aired instead.
toward j.HK
1300 damage
6/7
More damage. More useful in low jumps.
toward j.MK
900 damage
6/7
Thanks again kcxj.
I’ve incorporated the jump attack data in the latest version of the faq. It can be found on the first post of this thread.
I just need a little help interpreting the damage data on the Hurricane Kicks, no matter how I look at it the damage seems too high.
My friend Otaru 23 told me that he saw dan/daigo just zone…? with rc fireballs all day?
I guess he was right…:o Like if you try to roll ,or throw they would just punish you.
I just could not picture Ken… fucken you up with RC fireballs. I thought that was Ryu’s job.:o
Iam so scard to throw fireballs with ken… that’s usually how I die.
If that’s a “big part of Ken’s ground game” I am missing out big time. 
Thanks for the “heads up”. I also love to hear about new ways to land ken’s cross up.(evil grin)
Ps does anybody cancel Kens close standing roundhouse to level one shinruyken super, after a level 2 cancel in the corner?
It looks cool.:rolleyes:
No D
Sorry for getting to this so late. Seems like everything’s been covered already. I’ve only got two quick things to contribute.
First, i really like Ken’s meaty close s.MK because it gives frame advantage, trades with most wakeup LP uppercuts (just in case), and it doesn’t push the opponent too far like the s.HK does. I use it in knockdown situations where i don’t have time to go for a crossup. After it’s blocked, i walk forward a bit and throw. To mix it up, i also do low short xx LK fancykick. Since meaty s.MK, c.LK xx LK fancykick is a 3 hit combo if timed properly, it’s sort of an un-Reversible mixup. In other words, if the opponent thinks you’re going to go for a throw, he might stand up to counterthrow and get hit by the low short xx fancykick. But he can’t uppercut you cuz he’s still in blockstun. It’s also pretty scary to do meaty s.MK, walk forward half a step, low short low short lvl2 super.
Second, Ken has sort of a unique CC reset. During CC mode, if you do HCF+MK so that the first hit connects, and then hold MK to do the overhead, the overhead remains cancelable from the first hit connecting. So even before the overhead connects, you can cancel into c.MK or whatever. You can even do it fast enough so that the opponent remains in block stun and can’t do a reversal. Another cool thing is that you can cancel it into “psychic” RC fancykick and try to combo off that, since it’s way safer than canceling F+MK into “psychic” DP. Unfortunately, unless you’ve got some crazy F+HK kara skills, you’re only going to be able to get this reset once, max twice during an entire CC because that first hit of the HCF+MK has crap range and it -must- connect (or be blocked) for this to work.
What’s the trick to making a meaty close s.MK trade with a dp+LP? Here’s what happened when I tested against the following character’s light DPs…
Ryu- "Shoryuken!"
Honda- “Doksui!”
and so on and so on with Kyo, Iori, Sagat, Cammy, and Morrigan. All clean hits on the reversal. Man, I could do some crazy ass shit if I could get the intentional trades off the meaty with Kyo or Morrigan. Juggle with flame super or jump after, juggle with raging demon respectively.
When playing as Ken myself, I still prefer meaty close s.LK over the close s.MK. Thanks for giving me a great idea to incorporate the s.MK into my gameplan though.
-meaty close s.LK, (opponent mashing or trying to throw me), counter hit close s.MK xx fabulous kick
I normally use d.LK, s.LK xx fabulous kick when I think the opponent wants to counter me after the meaty, but now I’ll start mixing it up with the three frame close s.MK too.
V:
Ken can’t hit Sagat with s.LP after his level 2 tiger raid super. The static difference is only -2, so the best Ken can do is force a block. It works great against the -7 LK tiger raids though. HK tiger raid is punishable at -4 too, but I recommend playing safe and always punishing with dp+MP instead.
Are you ready to publish on gamefaqs yet? Be sure to let me know ahead of time. I don’t want to go there one day then die of shock from seeing something that’s actually useful for once. :eek: :lol:
I kind of thought close s.MK was useful. I’m a bit unclear on how close s.MK can trade with DPs though. Regardless, now I have new tactics to try out and another name to add to the credits section. --Thanks Majestros.
I didn’t know that Sagat’s lv 2 Raid left him so safe. Thanks for pointing the s.LP thing out kcxj.
After I incorporate these latest suggestions and touch up a few things I’ll post it on Gamefaqs. Probably get it posted by Monday.
So to save yourself from death by shock kcxj, I hope you check back here before then :lol:
can ken neutral duck the high hits of lvl 2 tiger raid? sorry i’d test it myself but i don’t have the game right now.
WTF is a neutral duck? Is it some kind of electrically balanced bird?
Yeah, he can crouch(defensive even) under the last hits. But even then, I can’t get a damn counter hit. What I can do is stand right in his face, and shoshosho the joystick. As soon as I see the superfreeze for Sagat, I mash a button. Free super for me. You might be able to mash a normal on startup and trade.
So the answer still seems to be that you cannot counter hit a lvl 2 raid after blocking the first hit.
some characters duck lower when they are in neutral position. That is neutral duck or non-defensive crouching. It is useful in sf2 but I don’t think it applies in cvs2.
You should edit your post and make it sarcastic, so that it blends in better.
Neutral ducks and non-defensive crouching. How about…:d:?
Hey, didn’t know you posted here. I read this FAQ on gamefaqs a little while back and it helped me a lot. Thanks 