Karin’s worst win percentages are against Bison, Birdie, Sim, and Fang - with shout-outs to Nash, Necalli, Chun, and Rashid. Still early to have a good grip on matchups, but thoughts?
Bison - yeah. He hits hard and has good buttons against her. Birdie too. Sim…I dunno, we haven’t learned NuSim yet so this might get better over time. Same with Fang.
Necalli and Chun aren’t surprising. Necalli just because he hits like a tank. Chun’s buttons are just better. And Rashid…fuck that character, seriously.
I also feel like Zangief is a hidden bad match for her. Mago has 80-100% win rate against most other characters but then against Gief, 57%.
Something I don’t know if it’s already been posted or what not, and I’m not 100% sure on this without fully committing to testing, but with Chun, if they like to do air Lightning Legs, you can cr.fierce and get a trade or even beat it clean.
Been messing around and looking at frame data and noticed something I hadn’t before when looking at Cammy’s frames. She only has one frame trap that has a 3 frame gap and thats st.LP into cr.MP, other than that all here frame traps have at best a 4 frame gap. That doesn’t mean you can go crazy using cr.LP against her obviously, but it does mean that with practice you can jab her out of her pressure to some decent damage or at least get her out of your face temporarily.
It doesn’t feel safe but I don’t see Gief as a bad match up. His cr. Lp is his best poke but I can usually out poke him by mixing in cr. Mk. Speed is key get in and out.
c.MP should only be +1 on block and s.MP has 6 frame start up last time I checked so it should only have a five frame gap unless I’m wrong and c.MP has more advantage on block.
The Karin/Gief match-up reminds me of the Yang/Gief match-up in IV mainly because their traditional rushdown all of a sudden becomes unsafe. LP slash and Orochi being unsafe at -2 instantly makes you rethink the match-up. Difference is Karin has much better normals than Yang so she can lame it out if necessary.
Gief is tricky in that Orochi becomes a guessing game not worth playing. He can lp SPD you if he blocks it. Your options are to backdash or jump and those can be beaten by sweep and air SPD respectively. Not even sure you have enough time to jump after a blocked Orochi.
How is everybody handling Chun and Necalli? They’re my least favourite matchups using Karin. Not fond of Sim either, but patience helps me out with that one.
To add on to that, st.LK > st.MP target combo isn’t safe on block. It’s -5, so don’t be afraid to cr.LP. If the Mika keeps doing it, start to follow that cr.LP up with a qcb lk or a just frame tenko. Qcb lk blows up Mika’s v-skill as well. So long as you keep Mika at bay, you’re doing. Don’t let them get that charged dropkick off. If you don’t think you can neutral jump punish in time, a st.MK will solve your problems.
I’ve been using the prima guide, as well as the data from the FAT and VFrames app for IOS, but even the shoryuken wiki (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_V/Cammy) states the same that c.MP is only +1 on block and that s.MP is +7 on hit making it link into cr.MK on regular hit. I have not tested the trying to c.LP out of the cr.MP into st.MP frame trap but I have tested st.MP into cr.MK and can verify that it does indeed link on just regular hit.
You guys are all damn idiots. Just look at the frame data. Gief doesn’t have anything under 4f unless he has super.
**
This is not SF4.** SPD startup is 5frames, not 2f. EX SPD is only throw invincible, not strike. EX Siberian Express doesn’t get armor till frame 3.
Karin can bully the hell out of Gief. Now, the age old question remains: “just because I can rush him down, do I want to?”
I’m surprised his grabs have so much start up but the fact is he CAN still punish shoulder on block - when the move is safe against every other character. That does change the match-up when he has full meter.
I found this video after having completed several long sets against a Nash, just to see what tools I can pick up watching better players.
I don’t remember any specifics of the video (it’s been a couple days now), but you’ll notice Mago gets in using several of these tools:
Jump. Obvious, but pretty important in this matchup in particular since some of Nash’s footsie buttons have some bad recovery. Watch out for scythe, since the hitbox, I believe, can hit you in the air also.
Command Dash/EX dash. This is obviously to go through fireballs. Infact, just doing dash xx orochi is not terrible since it puts you basically right at the range you want. Granted, you’re -2. Mago does a shitton of “random” ex dps if I remember right, I think in part to try and beat out possible responses from Nash after shoulder. Several of them didn’t work and he got punished, but it isn’t necessarily bad because then you can get your opponents to respect orochi’s -2 on block more than they should be.
V-skill. I’ve seen this as a good option myself but didn’t really think too much of it due to the slow startup. However, landing a full-charged v-skill, even on block, again puts you in a really nice range. You’re also only -1. The danger here is that you get hit out of your skill by Nash buttons, but if he is spamming that many buttons then you just go back to jumping in. And if this happens to go through fireball and hit, great.
Dash in. This, I feel, is just a universal option like 60% of the cast has (maybe more. its all bs numbers). Dashing in, especially dash in grab, seems to be pretty important in switching up the tempo of the match. It, I feel, is one of the main reasons I myself press so many buttons, just in hopes of hitting people in the middle of their dashes. Play too patient/reactive, and you’ll just get dashed into. So of course, this is good against Nash too once you’ve conditioned him to settle down with buttons (maybe because you’ve been jumping in too much?)
Walk and block. Classic. I don’t think I need to explain this, but this’ll probably be your “go to option”. Calling it “an option” is weird though, since this is just something you should naturally be doing in generally any matchup where you’re “the aggressor” and the opponent is “the defender”.
You can gleam any other ways Mago (and many other good Karins) approaches getting into Nash (use of V-trigger?)
Finally, don’t be too afraid to jump in. Nash’s air punish isn’t that bad compared to the reward you get if you manage to jump over his buttons and get a hit. Maybe be a bit more afraid once Nash has super, as he can punish neutral jump over fireball with super I think from half screen.