Alright cool. I will give that a try.
Anyone else having trouble in the bison matchup?
His mid ranged normals seem to check most of karin’s.
Fuck Necalli. Send help.
@Trife88 I totally agree. Karins normals are much quicker but you gotta be careful with his s.HK
Do you have safe jump set ups for his reversals?
S.MP xx command dash at range is your friend. You can stuff and or footsie some of his limbs and then you’re immediately in.
Once in, bully with S.lk as much as possible. He doesn’t have a reversal, so he just has to hold that and guess when you want to go for a throw/overhead or a stronger button for a counter hit.
Watch for his 3f jab tho, it’s good if you leave obvious gaps.
I made a post mostly about that a little bit up the page. The short version is that you’re going to need to rely on whiff punishing a lot more than usual to deal with him in neutral, since his good pokes tend to out range and beat our equivalents.
So, anti air and reversal options seem to be sorely lacking. seconded about command dashing under jump ins. You just have to recognize which version to you in order to punish people when they land. If you go to far to just do c.mp s.mp whatever, you can just throw out c.mk qcb HK.
These horrible reversal options are getting me into tons of trouble against rush down characters. Cammy and Rashid are my biggest headaches right now.
Against Cammy, I feel like if she just stands outside sweep range I can’t touch her. I feel like all I can do is throw out s.MK and s.HK and hope she runs into it and I get a crush counter… But from that range its like, ok she’s gonna just standing MK because it’s better than any normal I can hit her with, so I have to use QCB + MP or jump in as a hard read and if I’m wrong I’m getting blown up… Needing meter or V gage to even attempt a reversal is a nightmare. Can’t even do EX reversals against block pressure since it starts up in 5 frames and there are so many plus on block lights and mediums. I play trying to keep her out of my face, but from mid screen out she’s still at an advantage, since from that range light spiral arrow gets pretty safe and ex cannonstrike is driving me crazy.
Rashid is another story… EX eagle spike is actually super unsafe even though he lands kinda far away. You can hit him with a command dash + P into whatever launch finisher you want. Regular eagle spike you can c.MK into whatever… But I feel like against both Cammy and Rashid I have to just block until they do something I can punish.
Cammy isn’t that bad, and from playing my friend’s Cammy at locals I definitely would not say she beats Karin in midscreen. If anything, Cammy is scary only because she can randomly jump dive kick and be plus (i believe). If you try reacting to the jump with an anti air you’ll often lose. She’s scary if she knocks you down, but the exact same thing can be said of Karin for Cammy.
In fact, you really want to keep her AT your st.mk range, and yes you are trying to get her to run into them until they stop. st.mk is great because if used aggressively it can also stop jump attempts. Memory is fuzzy since its been awhile, but she doesn’t have fantastic buttons to try and beat you if you get her to block. She is the one that is fishing for a whiff punish, which means she will likely be walking backwards, which means you’re winning. If you get her to calm down you can start getting more aggressive and dashing in; if she is still going nuts I’d maybe try to neutral jump occasionally to catch dive kick attempts and drill attempts. I like to think of it this way; if you got to walk forward, and your opponent walked backwards, you’re winning. And having your opponent in the corner is generally a pretty good thing.
I will say this, I was losing a lot to the Cammy when I was trying to play too reactively. It just isn’t in your favor to be letting characters like Cammy and Rashid (and R. Mika. And Necalli. Hell, everyone) do their thing. The more they do their thing the greater chance you’ll get opened up. st.mk is the great “No” that Karin has against these characters. st.hk is the “Fuck No”.
I just checked frame data on drill, and none can ever be plus on block (except maybe hk/ex drill, but that’d have to be from very far away), which means you’re at advantage on any drill block. if she misspace the drill even once then you get cr.lp xx tenko punish, which leads to a knockdown (and depending on recovery type, an ambiguous and SAFE jump in).
Whiff a lot of pokes with HK.Mujin and CA buffered. This is effective against players that attempt to rush you down. The better you keep this up, the more frustrated the opponent will become to take more reckless approaches like jumping and double dashing in
It’s also worth spending time with a recorded dummy to practice crossing him up consistently and learning empty jump setups to bait DP’s. His DP is 3F I believe and has a more vertical hitbox that you need to get used to
If they teleport raw or you can walk out of distance of st.mp,st.mk. st.hp(pretty much fullscreen) you can stand fierce when he teleports to st.fierce or gale you make sure to cancel to a command dash if it hits so you can get close and not let him breath. It’s kinda finicky though if the sim messes up his instant air tele Meaty him to death when you have the offense, other than that, stay patient and walk and block you’ll get your openings
Vega is a piece of crap. He outpokes you midscreen and his c.LP is very good for stopping your pressure. You just really have to play it completely safe. At the very least, when he does that roll move, it’s a free punish on block.
VEGA:
Walk him back. Watch for slide (though it is punishable unless it’s done at absolute max range). Sweep under his s.MP (this is crucial). Unless your opponent is a moron Vega will be a real footwork test. Max range sweep and s.MK are your friends. Don’t jump in unless you really feel like they’re not expecting it. If you do it all willy-nilly then you’ll eat CC s.HK > slide or VT > eventual death. Vega can use VT to escape the corner. He has no legit reversal. Knockdowns are brutal for him. Thus you need to treat them as gold in this match: no more Scarlet Terror, no weird EX move–nothing. He has to eat an offensive sequence and either block it out or tech perfectly. You have to convert your knockdown chances.
R. MIKA:
R. Mika has four primary ways to approach and pretty much nothing else: dash up, jump in, charged s.HK, and slide. Dash up and jump in are universal options so we’ll skip those. Charged s.HK is easy to spot. When you see her prep for it, neutral jump HK and get big damage. If for some reason you fail to see it and you wind up blocking it, she will do one of two things: wail on s.LK for a Butt Slam combo or command grab (she’s +2 on block so beware). Slide is probably the trickiest but she can’t really convert off of it. Good spacing should take care of that. You can whiff punish it with a gang of stuff too. Punish blocked Butt Slams. Don’t have patterned jumps or she’ll eat you alive with Wingless Airplane. Ah! Yes! V-Trigger! It’s somewhat annoying but my general rule upon seeing her activate is start walking backwards and DON’T JUMP back (they love that little Wingless Airplane “trap” in this scenario).
runaway down-back vega is one of the worst matchups. its just not fun
I CANNOT against Ryu!!!
:neutral:
Everything is punished. I can punish his fireball game, but once I’m close I can’t get past his cr.HP/Srk.
He’s -10 or significantly more after either of those moves, so assuming you’re walking up to him/using v-skill or have used HP ressenha to get through fireball patterns you can definitely punish the mess out of him if he starts itching for either.
I’m having the most trouble against Birdie, Rashid, Cammy and Mika
For Rashid I’m just finding a hard way to approach him and deal with his mobility his st.MK is pretty good in neutral plus he has good anti air options. On defense I guess it’s due to me not being familiar with the matchup but man it’s hard to find a gap in his pressure forward MP, HK and qcf+lp all seem pretty amazing. Any tips on that matchup is much appreciate it
Against Cammy her buttons in neutral just seems to outbeat everything Karin has and it seems the only answer to anti air divekick is with EX Rassenga or try to do qcf+HK to dash under her but that seems very risky.
Against Birdie I’m just finding a hard time getting in on him without taking dangerous risk he has good keep away with his chain moves and st.MK the only success I’ve had against him was rushing him down.
Against Mika I just have no clue on how to fight her lol
Get to max s.MK/c.HK-range and harass him. Ryus buttons are really stubby compared to yours, so he has problems getting anything going if you manage to get to your sweetspot. Your sweep is great in this matchup: it outranges all of his buttons, and is safe from max range barring super*, so it’s one of those things you can use a lot and see how he reacts if he blocks it (a lot of people press buttons afterwards since the sweep is so negative, so be prepared to whiff punish here), and I believe you can get a safejump on CCH. Ryu can kind of YOLORYUKEN out of your up-close pressure since he’s one of the few characters with a meterless reversal, but if you manage to bait it, he eats 500 stun.
I think this is one of Karins easier matchups. Your anti-airs need to be on point, as always, but it’s a footsie matchup where Karin plainly has better buttons and maneuverability. As long as you don’t get zoned out, knocked down or jumped in on, you’re at an advantage.
- edit: I haven’t had a Ryu punish max range c.HK without super yet, at least. I can’t test it at the moment either, but looking over frame data, the only thing I can see that COULD be a viable punish from max range is EX hado. I’d be grateful if somebody could test this.
Either way, sweep is still good here. Use it.
edit 2: according to the Ryu punish thread, he can always punish c.HK with s.LK or c.LK, but at max range that’s all he gets without super
This probly belongs to the video thread, but since you asked about punishes, I actually made a Punishing Ryu using Karin video:
No talk about Nash yet? I feel this is the only matchup I have a rough idea about for now. I don’t want to talk about the others until I’ve played several long sets first (haven’t been playing 5 much recently).
To kick-start this discussion, I don’t feel this matchup is bad for Karin. Nash will definitely be trying to keep you out with fireball, spin knuckle, and sonic scythe. While it can get hard to get in (especially with sonic scythe’s huge range), once you get into st.mk range she seems to be pretty good. It is here when you can start scaring the Nash back a bit, as blocking any of his longer range moves can potentially be punished (theyre pretty minus), or at least give Karin the option of getting closer. Having one meter means you can sometimes go through fireball with ex dash xx launcher. Occasionally throwing instant orochi is good, or the occasional charge v-skill, to try and catch a fireball attempt preemptively, although it should be used sparingly. Even on block these options aren’t too bad because they get Karin closer to Nash.
Match feels very fair from what I played of it, as Nash can’t get too crazy with buttons in fear of getting jumped in on, while Karin can’t go nuts trying to go in or she’ll run into said buttons. She seems to be scarier once she does land the solid knockdown, as she can quickly push Nash into the corner off one or two combos. Often I feel if I catch a mistake from Nash I get to go in and pressure soon afterwards, while Nash’s reward for getting Karin is often her getting pushed away where no real follow up can take place. This feels most apparent in each other’s anti air game, as Karin gets a huge reward for anti airing (but it is “harder” to do), while Nash doesn’t get much besides the initial damage (but is easier to do).
Ya I play my friend who mains Nash all the time and I feel I can rly bully Nash on wake up with frame traps and throws. The only thing he can do is wakeup vtrigger defensively(?) I also like to save ex meter for ex ressenha to shut down moonsault and jumps in general.