Rather than whether it would be OP, I’m curious about what he was talking about at all. Is it actually possible to super-cancel any version of upkicks besides light?
Isn’t it unsafe on block? Either way you’re talking about a punish situation which is guaranteed regardless of execution. Sounds like you’re just saying the execution for a punish is too easy
How is that an OS, much less broken? Plenty of characters can cancel a special into a super, and if you miss the super you still get the positioning that landing the special grants you.
My basic notes: she’s got very solid footsies, decent anti-air, and does a ton of damage off a cr.mp confirm (Holy crap do EX Shoulder combos do solid damage). Her V Skill is kind of ass and her V Trigger is honestly more useful for the cancel than the Rekkas. That said, a lot of her specials are pretty much combo filler, especially against anyone with a 3f EX DP like Ryu or Ken who can punish your Upkicks every time no matter the strength. Her overhead special is just there for calling out fireballs and standing confirms (where it gets you the best damage and positioning meterless), and her command dash is also mainly there for combos, not mixups. I don’t know the frames on her EX RP, but it works as a damn good anti-air if you’re willing to spend meter.
Basic combos to know
The Rekka Juggle is P d.P P
cr.mp st.mp xx LP RP Slide STANDING ONLY
cr.mp st.mp xx Launcher -> (JF Launcher/VSkill/LK Upkicks/Rekka Juggle)
cr.mp st.mp xx EX Shoulder -> HK Upkicks/Rekka Juggle
cr.mk xx Launcher -> (JF Launcher/VSkill/LK Upkicks/Rekka Juggle) Doesn’t go into EX Shoulder
st.hp has the same stuff as cr.mp st.mp
You can poke with cr.mk into Upkicks if they don’t have a 3 frame reversal. With VT active you can also do cr.mk xx Rekka and Sway on block, but there is a gap
st.mp and cr.mp can VTC into st.mp while st.hp and st.hk can VTC into st.hp. I’m not sure what cr.mk or st.mk can VTC into
All of her specials can go into CA off the initial hits.
Your plan is to play footsies with your MK button and sometimes HK until you get in and start running frametraps with your MP. On a knockdown you can do a meaty st.lk into cr.mp as well. Buffering st.lk into LK Upkicks in neutral if they don’t have a 3f punish can also work.
Overall she’s fun, but I’m really disappointing in how her Rekkas are basically combo filler. I can’t help but feel that there’s a more fun game hidden underneath where everyone has VT all the time with the V Gauge being used for VTC and VR only
Yo doods, here’s a few combo’s by me as karin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Weg2h-riEEY
Hope some of ya can get use some of my combo’s. check it out 
Ex.shoulder is very niceee and resets :).
Heads up, EX Shoulder resets are neutral or worse unless you want to blow another meter on EX Dash.
Oh, and optimal corner combo for 1 bar: starter xx Launcher -> LK Upkicks -> EX RP
It’s funny how different Karin footage looks after you’ve actually gotten your hands on her. For various reasons I did not play as much as I’d like but I did get a decent impression.
Like, seeing Momochi use buffered launchers in footsies from whiff punishes actually looks really impressive instead of just business as usual like it seemed at the time.
Just with how to use 2-in-1s in neutral, there’s tons of specifics to get used to. Instant launcher won’t reach at max range, so you want to have the timing down for it to connect without missing the combo, and it seems like there’s room to switch to shoulder on reaction to a blocked normal if I practiced it enough.
And it’s easy enough to say certain things aren’t a “real” mixup for one reason or another, but good luck putting that statement into practice against a player who actually uses all of their tools. The idea of rekka mixup is more about anticipating what the opponent will do to escape it than to make the opponent guess, and with the number of different things Karin can do to keep your head busy, if you’re just thinking about “reacting to the overhead” you’re playing in a way that will get you easily caught by something else.
Same deal with the case where, yeah, you can block TK Bad Moon in a Milliablocker application where all it does is run high-low on you, but then mix that in with fastfalls and rolls and everything else that can be done in a match, and reaction is not a viable long-term strategy. There’s too many things to watch out for.
Isn’t it JF launcher again instead of LK upkicks that would be more optimal?
JFL does the most damage, but I included it if you’re not certain in your JFL as LK Upkicks will do more than a non JF.
I think you can actually juggle with the shoulder as well for maximum damage but I had trouble confirming it.
The hitboxes on that move are really weird. It definitely doesn’t have much horizontal range in any respect, but it can actually beat some things it has no right to hit at all, like Vega’s standing strong.
Standing RH is probably not as good as I might have hoped, mostly in the sense of the advantage on hit preventing me from using it multiple times in a row, but it’s still invaluable against certain characters.
If they are crouching the 2nd hit well whiff and they can punish hard. I recommend caution doing it to much
I don’t find either whiffing the second hit or 3-frame reversals to be too much of a concern. Unless you’re doing point-blank jab into upkicks you won’t be so close that reversals will be common, and it’s obvious when you’re too far to do upkicks (missing the second hit only happens at far ranges.)
If you are only doing upkicks, and not mixing it up with shoulder/frametraps/walking normals, then it might be easier to react to, but it has the effect that its frame advantage seems better in practice than it is on paper. Can’t really discount the chip damage, either.
Why use s.Strong for the reset when s.Fierce does more damage and leads into the 50/50? I’m not sure if s.Strong gives you the option to control which side she ends up on with the same strength command dash. I found with s.Fierce xx command dash that short keeps her in front while forward or RH puts her behind.
Also, that’s crazy how she can V-Trigger cancel s.Forward, and then link into cr.Forward. I didn’t think there was enough hit stun for that to work but that makes her footsie game even crazier now.
Huh, apparently st.hk is minus on hit. For a non-cancelable move that’s kind of bullshit.
Yeah, I get greedy trying to chain roundhouses like I used to with cammy in previous SF, but I get hit out of the second or third one especially because of how it moves her forward.
Can’t compain too much about that though. V-trigger cancel isn’t super-rare either.
For a poke it should generally be at least neutral if not +1 for hitting the opponent; generally giving up pressure for connecting with an attack is the opposite of what you should have
Okay, There’s two ‘parts’ to what makes it really good:
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HK Mujinkyaku combos from cr.MK, so it’s a guaranteed 6-hit setup if you do cr.MP, cr.MK xx HK Mujinkyaku.
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You can interrupt the HK Mujinkyaku after two hits with a cancel to CA.
The real point I’m trying to make is that when you cancel to HK Mujinkyaku, there is literally no way to drop the combo trying for the CA cancel.
I just don’t see how something that rewarding with zero risk fits the apparent overall design goals for this game.
You mean like how almost every special to super works? If I’m playing Bison and do a cr.mp to MK SK I can mash for CA all I want and even if I miss it I still get the whole advantage of the scissors hit. If I’m playing Ken I can do cr.mk xx Hadoken and go for the CA cancel! Or Necalli with MK Stomp etc etc.
I feel like i was getting launcher -> shoulder pretty consistent, but i still dont know if it would even be worth it since it leaves you in worse positioning. If you wanted to be optimal then you could probably do it around 2/3 of the screen where the shoulder will knock them into the corner, so you can command dash in and be close enough so you haven’t lost any of the good positioning.
Nah it’s good where it is I think. Especially as a crush counter giving you half a bar and combo opportunity.
Definitely works. It’s the AI’s bnb from a low starter. cr.lk cr.lp launch shoulder.
I feel that the extra damage and stun makes it worth it but I haven’t explored all the various positional advantages yet.