Karin is from the Alpha series. She had a counter when Alpha counters were a mechanic. SFxT also had alpha counters and several characters had counters. Counter moves would serve a different function from V-Reversals. V-Reversals gets the opponent off you during a blockstring. Counters can punish counter pokes, reversals or any offensive move your opponent can try. Even with V-reversals they can still have a purpose.
She would be one of 5 (?) characters with meterless reversals, including herself. In A3, CC was a universal reversal and even in A-ism supers were relatively safe. The two games follow severely different rules.
They could give counters startup so they don’t actually work as a reversal, I guess. But as I said before, I’m not sure what I would be willing to give up in exchange for it.
If EX rainbow palm is actually invuln, that’s still more than some characters get.
I’m saving judgement until I actually get her in my hands, so far things look great though. One of the reason we (I) wanted my favorite players from the past to make a resurgence is obviously I like their playstyle, but also I would love to see a fresh spin on things. I think Capcom has done a pretty decent job with the redesign so far… now about putting Karin in the next beta build…
No, I don’t think it would make her significantly dominant as counters are more read based than reaction based and can be baited/used incorrectly and punished save for maybe the anti air counter (which can still be baited). V-Reversals are the equivalent to alpha counters and aren’t really the same. Those are meant for escaping pressure on block, not calling out your opponents’ bad button presses.
It leaves me wondering though, if she can follow up her V-Reversal like she can with her counter in Alpha 3. It pops the opponent up, but I’m not sure if she recovers fast enough to follow with anything or if they can even be juggled in the first place.
-One thing I think her hooligan-like followup should have is a way to just attack out of the flip instead of the grab that only connects on standing opponents (kind of like Guy’s bunshin flip). Because as it is now, I don’t see much of a reason for the opponent to not just crouch unless the initial overhead special is advantageous enough to allow for a regular mixup like her f+MK overhead. Either that or make the grab an actual overhead.
Yeah, I’m pretty aware of this. I mean given the situation of her having the current moveset with added counters and no one else getting counters. This game is a lot different from SFxT and Alpha from what we’ve seen and I feel like counters could be really dominant. I guess you could replace the backdash with a counter and keep the meter drain to even it out. I just feel like it’s for the best that it’s not in V.
Yeah, and the counters are used scarcely. The point is, if they removed them, it’s not a big deal. Your 5-5 matchup doesn’t suddenly become 4-6 because of it. Counters are just there as a “make a read” tool.
If you are upset Karin doesn’t have it because you liked it then ok, whatever. But don’t tell me counters are crucial to her gameplay and her success of winning matchups… or ANY character for that matter.
They removed her counter off her rekka and changed it to a back step. That’s even better.
People keep suggesting that for various characters, but I’d bet it’ll never happen. ACs deal non-fatal gray damage, but making them comboable would defeat the purpose.
Lol I’m sure you can survive without your counter.
It’s a new game, with “new” being the keyword. You can’t expect a classic character to have all their tools intact from when they were last playable, shit will change, move on, adapt, etc, etc.
Gouken’s counters were frame 1 and against some characters a low counter would cover most of their moves; you could just spam that against Elena (and I think it only missed Bison’s st.hk, caught his SK) and catch almost any of their pokes. Karin’s counters are not frame one and are high/low hard coded. Personally I prefer the high/low coding (my main in GG, Axl, has pretty much the exact same thing as Karin’s but always connects on successful counter), but Gouken’s counters were quite useful. I always try and pick up the counter character in games because it’s just such a fun mechanic.
As for how dominant they are, it really just comes down to the frame data and system in question. When I play Axl in GG they’re nice if the opponent is getting predictable and can deal with a lot of moves that are DP safe, but if he lost them it wouldn’t be a huge deal as they’re frame 3 counters. For a character without a meterless reversal or other DP they can be great for when you’re dealing with jump ins. If they’re frame 1 then they’re effectively a reversal, and can be much better designed due to their canned followups than a parry.
Haven’t finished going through the videos yet, but nobody seems to be using her upkicks as a cancel out of a cr.mk poke. Do we know if the LK version is safe on block?
Here’s a better character breakdown. The move list is actually not complicated once you understand it’s a tree format rather than individual moves but that should have been expected when understanding it’s a rekka character. Capcom just didn’t present the information in the best possible way.
Last I checked, crMK was cancelable by at least Ryu, Chun, and Ken. I’m pretty certain Necalli and Bison can too. If you add in Karin that is half of the revealed cast.
Although it was posted earlier, rewatching the end part in slow-motion makes me wonder whether the first trailer combo only works against standing opponents. It’s possible that move could hit later, but maybe not?
I wasn’t being literal. Everyone’s made a big deal about how low forwards have mostly been nerfed across the board, and as a whole it seems like Capcom wants lows to be weaker so that people are more comfortable standing and walking.
