Could you specify what you mean by “after the hit”? Not sure if you’re asking how to do JFT, or if you’re asking how to time it after a certain hit.
Tenko and Orochi are both done by doing their motions (236/2362) and then plinking K>P. Plinking meaning you press a button (in this case K) and then hit another button one frame after §. When doing Tenko/Orochi, you don’t actually have to get a perfect plink because there’s a 3f window as you mentioned, but plinking (or at least trying to plink) should ensure you get that 3f window.
As for how to time JFT/Orochi after a normal, the button presses can’t be buffered, because you need to already be in the command dash to do those specials, so if you do a normal and press K>P too early, only the command dash will come out or nothing will come out. You have to press the buttons at the end of the hitstop (the frames where both characters freeze when an attack is connecting) for JFT or Orochi to come out.
Alternatively, you CAN buffer the command dash and piano 2 or 3 punch buttons.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear enough, by the first hit I actually meant after the dash (QCF+k) when exactly do we press the punch button? So my question should be how do you do jft? So you say after the qcf+k you have to wait just a little before pressing the punch button right? Also is it possible to do tenko followed by orochi in the same combo? Thanks.
No you don’t have to wait and you actually should not. You can press P one frame after K (thats plinking, pressing a button exactly 1 frame after another) and JFT will come out. You have a 3f window, so you can press P up to 3 frames after K. So don’t wait to press P, you can literally try to hit P immediately after K (1f after), and as long as P is pressed within 3f of pressing K, you’ll get the JFT. Any later than that and you get regular Tenko. Sorry I’m extremely tired and don’t know if I’m explaining this well. Like I said earlier, you don’t HAVE to plink to get JFT, but trying to plink pretty much ensures you hit P within the 3f window.
About Plinking: When you properly plink, the game registers particular inputs indicating that you’ve done it right. Just search the forums or youtube-search plinking and I’m sure you’ll find a more lengthy explanation. Basically when you plink K>P the input display will show K, then on the next line it will show P+K. If you fail the plink by pressing P too late, the input display will just show K, and then just P on the next line. The other way to mess up a plink is by pressing both buttons at the same time, in which case the input display will just show K+P on the same line. I recommend anyone trying to pick up Karin find out about plinking and pianoing if you don’t already know about them.
And yeah, Orochi is the best meterless follow-up after JFT. JFT->Orochi doesn’t work deep in the corner though. It seems to be a tough combo for beginners and people picking up Karin. Takes some practice, but becomes totally free/easy once you get good at it. I pretty much always use this or JFT->VSkill midscreen. JFT->Orochi for max damage/stun, JFT->VSkill builds V-Gauge.
What options do I have after jft, vskill?
Also been thinking about how useful is her vtrigger really. Seems more like “if its a guranteed kill” kinda thing.
The big deal about it is that it gives her an easily hitconfirmable special that can be comboed out of her lows / her frame traps, as well as some other shenanigans (JFT - rekka - flip makes for some ambiguous left-right-mixups, etc), and it’s really hard to punish: most characters need a super to deal with the backdash (Mika is the exception with EX Peach). Furthermore, s.HK VTC is fairly braindead, since you’re plus a billion on block and can go for whatever mixup you’d like, while you get decent damage on hit and all the damage on crush counter.
I agree it’s not a great VT, but it definitely has its uses.
Imo Karin’s V Trigger is one of the stronger ones in the game.I’ll elaborate on that:
-It’s only 2 bars.Depending on how often you use her V Skill in your neutral game or in your combos,Karin is probably the only character in the game that gains access to her Vtrigger that fast.You can almost be at full hp and have access to her V Trigger.You can still use her vrevesal and still be able to have V Trigger stocked in the same round. Also hitconfirming into V Trigger from her V Skill,sthk or stmk is strong too.
-Crmk xx Guren Ken is a really strong midrange footsie tool.If you have CA stocked and they are at 30-40% hp it’s guaranteed death.Also qcfp>k is also generally safe against most characters(depending on their resources sometimes),if you screw up your hitconfirm.Also qcfp>down+k leads to meaty setups.
-Opens up new combo extensions and more damage potential.
-Her V Trigger lasts for a decent amount of time.Not Chun Li tier,but it’s ok for what she gets.
For the next two stuff i have posted videos in the Combo/Tech thread,but i’ll post them here too,just to provide visual explanation.
-You can setup 50/50 mixups with tenko or jftenko>qcfp>up+k.Even if they block them you are still at advantage.
Video example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbdbWtQSHws
-You can setup meaty Guren Chochu setups after tenko/jftenko or after tenko/jftenko>lk mujinkyaku.As soon as they fall to the ground you whiff Guren Ken and then do Chochu.So you actually do qcfp>down+p.The qcfp part whiffs,but the down+p part hits them while they rise.Same timing for both normal and back recovery.Both are advantageous on block,but if they back recover you have more advantage.Beats wakeup 3 frame non invincible moves.Use qcfp>k to bait invincible reversals.Then punish them with full combo.If you condition them to not press any button on their wakeup,you can go for mixups,tick thows,etc.
Video example:
-The weak part of her V Trigger is when you use it in blockstrings.You are forced to take big risks.All of her options are unsafe,except for qcfp>down+p,being +1 on block,but it can be interrupted before its active frames.Qcfp>p and qcfp>down+k are anti-jab moves,but if they weren’t mashing jab after Guren Ken,prepare to be punished accordingly.The only legit way that qcfp>p might become a formidable option is when you have CA stocked.
@hypersonic That first oki video is pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to see how ambiguous that is for myself. Seems like back-teching would make it easier to react correctly, but cool nonetheless. Depending on how strong the actual mixup is I might assimilate that lol.
In the second video you do Tenko>Gurkenken xx Chochu (elbow) xx CA. You should always do Tenko>Gurenken xx Chochu xx 2P (cross-up followup) xx CA. Does more damage, and the side switch is irrelevant because when Karin supers, she and her opponent are always left at the same positioning relative to the the stage/each other. Karin is left slightly past the middle, and her opponent is left in between her and the corner.
@S_Kelson Yeah i knew even back then (vid is 3 months old) about the combo in the CA,but these videos aren’t focused on her optimal combos anyway.
About the Resshu 50/50…I think it may be more reactable in back recovery when they are aware of it,but still you are at an advantage that you have to delay a bit your meaty.Also the fact that you can set it up from early Guren Ken after the Tenko,does not give the mixup away.
In most cases i prefer it over finishing normal V Trigger bnb (after tenko) into Guren Kusabi(slide).You lose like 35 damage,but you gain the mixup.Even if they block it you still have the advantage to setup a meaty and you are near them.So no worries about retaining pressure.
You can still do it after tenko>ex tenko>guren ken,but iirc if they back recover it never them crosses up and if they normal recover it always crosses them up.
@hypersonic Ah I see I see. I remembered someone posting something like that, didn’t realize it was you. Well it seems like a pretty cool setup, had totally forgotten about its existence. Since the damage difference isn’t too big, I do thinks its something worth learning.
EDIT: And I totally agree that Karin’s VT is really strong. Its not like Necalli’s or anything, which takes a long time to access but makes him a nuts character once its activated.
Karin has a great V-System in general. Her V-Skill is excellent, you can use it in combos and its also a very nice tool in neutral, can even be used meaty/in knockdown setups (though I only recommend this if the other character doesn’t have an incincible reversal). Crush counter st.HK->V-Skill gives you like 2/3-3/4 of a bar alone I believe. And only needing to fill up 2 bars, her VT often becomes a threat faster than anyone else’s. When you’re in VT, you get the ability to easily confirm off of cr.MK, as well as a significant increase on ALL optimized damage (meterless, 1bar, 2bars, super). The VT activation itself is also very strong of course. It lets you get huge damage off of some of Karin’s great long range pokes like st.HK, V-Skill, or even st.MK. Basically Karin is a really strong character in my opinion (at least at this point), so even though her VT isn’t the most insane thing, it still makes her super strong. The fact that its so easily accessible is what makes it good.
If you’ve saw JWong winning Combo Breaker this weekend, you’d see him actively making decisions to get his V-trigger active, and then use s.LK - c.MK - Guren Ken to pressure people. The fact that her VT gives Karin a safe-ish special that starts from a long-range low is huge. It just gets better when you consider that she gets to make that low a 3f frametrap as well thanks to s.LK being +3 on block, and you can very easily hit-confirm this into super or a hard knockdown. Plus, she has one of the best VT-activations in the game with s.HK, since the situation is bad for the opponent even if they block the s.HK.
Basically, her VT is good not because of the VT, but because it fits the rest of her toolset so nicely. The frame trap options, gimmicks and combo options she gets from it don’t hurt either, of course.
Any advice how to reliably execute/time the LK portion of c.mp > c.mk xx lk.mujin? Anytime I do it it seem to randomly produce the MK version instead. Button inputs are exactly the same when button display is turned on.
I’m also having a hell of a time with c.mp > c.mk xx tenko. Either the tenko comes out as just her senpo, or – more often – it comes out as a delayed tenko, which of course doesn’t combo.
@Biscuit_Nuts Can you clarify the first question? There is no way mk version will come out if you actually pressed lk.
For tenko. Do you use plinking for JFT? Can you do c.mk xx JFT reliably? If yes then you probably just inputting tenko to early. For cr.MK (for st.LP also actually) you should input JFT after a little pause, closer to the end of animation. It’s because for medium and heavy puches hitstop is longer and input can be lost.
Pianoing helps here. It means that for JFT instead of only inputting only one punch button you input several in quick succession - one of them will catch a neccesarry timing. On pad i do qcf, lk, lp, hp. I plink lk and lp with a thumb and press HP with an index finger as fast as possible after lp. On a stick you can easily input all three punches as far as i now. There are videos for pianoing on youtube - look them up.
For instance, if you press and hold MK > qcb > release MK = MK mujin. I feel like that’s what’s happening in my first question. Almost as if the timing of when I do QCB and/or release the MK (from cr.mk) is screwing with my LK input. It’s consistently been a challenge, making my attempt at c.mp > c.mk xx lk.mujin risky as hell.
Yeah, I (think I) plink for JFT. What I do on the pad is roll my thumb from kick-to-punch in a single motion and it works pretty reliably. I think I’m just missing that “pause” you talked about during the normal’s animation. I tend to execute my tenko right away.
Oh yes. That can happen. That’s called negative edge - in specials’ inputs not only pressing but relising of the button is registered and used. And as far as i know in sf5 you cannot disable it. I never encountered it cause i press buttons sharply. But if you hold buttons it definitely can happen. Why do you hold them by the way?
Rolling the thumb is plinking yes. Try to add HP press after plink as i’ve mentioned, when cancelling cr.MK, st.HP and cr.HP it really simplifies timing. But make shure that HP input goes after and not at the same time as LP - i made that mistake in the beginning. When cancelling other buttons pianoing is unnececary but it doesn’t hurt as far as i know. But i only use in with cr.MP, st.HP and cr.HP.
And that pause in cancelling gave me pains too in the beginning. I think it’s a common mistake because JFT input itself must be inputted fast so it makes you hurry to start inputting it. While actually all cancels except from lights can be inputted very lasiely. Just practice it focusing on that pause and with 2 and 3 normals comboes:** cr.MP, cr.MK xx JFT** and cr.LP (counterhit), cr.MP, cr.MK xx JFT. Because at least for me it was necessary to retrain timing in counterhit combo even when i learned to do it in normal combo reliably.
I don’t intentionally hold them, I said “hold” in my example to better illustrate negative edge. However… now that I think about it, I may have an unconscious tendency to hold some of my button presses longer than necessary. Something else to look at in training.
I don’t intentionally hold them, I said “hold” in my example to better illustrate negative edge. However… now that I think about it, I may have an unconscious tendency to hold some of my button presses longer than necessary. Something else to look at in training.
I’ve picked up Karin as a secondary and am having some success just playing neutral and using her BnBs (good enough vs. Silver level opponents, at least). But I could really use some direction on meaties to use and more intricate pressure though. So far I’ve been basically only using c.MP>s.MP and c.MP>c.MK as both meaty and pressure options. Sometimes I’ll c.LP>s.LP as well or just through out single s.LK (to set up the throw game), but I’m sure there must be some other reliable and/or longer strings I can use to mix things up. Any help would be appreciated.
Also, when do you guys tend to fish for s.HP and s.HK in neutral? I’m a little unsure when to take that risk so usually avoid throwing those buttons out. (I find s.HP to be an excellent anti-air up close though, especially when I don’t have meter. The timing works for me, for some reason.)
@SubSonicAK I don’t play Karin anymore and then i played her i actually usually just did Sappo, manually timed cr.MP. But while reserching her i’ve found this comment
and this videos
They are for season 1, but i believe still working.