Okay, Ill try to cover everything, I hope I dont miss something. I would like to see what other people will say as well.
Oh yea, before I talk about everything its best you know this:
- In my opinion, always do hk karakusa’s. Except in one situation, if you parry yun’s dive kick a mk karakusa may be unnescapable. Just so you know.
**
Landing the Karakusa**- For the most part, if your playing someone that knows how to defend well against Makoto, you will have a hard time getting a karakusa on them when they wakeup. But it all depends on their style, you really have to train yourself to pay attention to everyones style and see if a karakusa will work on the on wakeup.
Better ways to land the karakusa on wakeup- Because a plain karakusa doesn’t work on a lot of people on wakeup, your better off trying these ways.
These are some good ways to set up the throw on their wakeup:
(the arrows dont mean they link when I use them always, hope it doesnt confuse you)
-s.mp --> Karakusa (best way, works when they block too)
-c.lp --> Karakusa (quick, I prefer the first option though)
-c.lk --> Karakusa (Works well on some people)
- Like you mentioned before, the kara-karakusa. (little side story) Ive got this friend that plays Yun, and if I ever try a plain karakusa on him on wake up I get punished. But if I dash back and kara-kara, he always tries to block. It might work when you think it wont =).
- I usually use this in regular gameplay, but I should be trying it on wakeup… Universal overhead --> karakusa. Works surprisingly well for me.
And for all of those dont try to do the karakusa too fast.
Landing karakusa’s in regular play- Here’s a few ways I could think of off the top of my head.
-
All the options I said before work well regularly
-
A MK axe kick in the air that hit’s the opponents head (if blocked or not), will set you up well for a karakusa. And if you accidentally hit them too low, you can try to dash in and than grab them.
-
Ive seen this work occationally on people who like to block. If they block
s.hp --> EX hayate, than you can dash in and grab them. Once again, all depends on who your playing though.
-
Just a dash in and karakusa works sometimes
-
After you hit the opponent with a hayate is sometimes a great time to land it, I will talk more about it later. Usually standing or crouching lk --> lp hayate --> karakusa works the best.
-
After a HK in the air (against standing opponents).
-
After a HK in the air (against opponents in the air) than dash when you hit the ground and grab them.
-
After close parries
-
If you parry one of their air moves, s.lp, than dash under. Than you can mix up between a karakusa or a c.lk --> lp hayate
And so many more situations
Post-hayate attacks against jumpers- After gathering all the info from the other thread, I think these are the best options you have.
-A lp hayate, which will send them flying in the air and will allow you to hit them with another hayate (its either a medium or high punch hayate I never remember).
Dangerous to do because your not very safe if they decide to block =(.
-s.lk --> lp hayate. If you time it perfect the opponent wont even be able to jump. This is tough to pull off all the time though.
-Jumping up with them and hitting them with a HK is descent too, just try to predict when they will jump.
-c.hk if you have good timing also, but it seems that it doesnt work all the time unfortunitely. s.mk works better than this, but I wouldnt suggest using s.mk either.
-EX oroshi is fairly good, but won’t get all jumps.
Best post-hayate mixups (assuming they dont jump)- Theres tons options here, because in the middle of all of the mixups you can always block or dash back, which I see a lot of makoto players do.
The best ones:
- lp hayate. Sometimes just doing many lp hayate’s in a row work well. This will stop some of those quick jabs and other quick moves. I would suggest doing repeated lp hayate’s and than predict when they will block and karakusa them.
-c.lk --> lp hayate to c.lk --> lp hayate to s.lk --> EX Oroshi. This is a popular option and work very well. And instead of the EX oroshi, sometimes another lp hayate is a good idea and you can keep mixing up from there.
-Like you said, the quick EX tsurugi overhead move. I play on pad more than on joystick and its kind of tough for me to pull off too on pad =(.
-A karakusa. For example, s.hp --> hp hayate --> karakusa. After a lot of hayates that end with you being close to the opponent a karakusa is a good option.
-Never forget blocking/parrying those dragon punches as an option too.
-c.lk --> lp hayate. s.lk --> lp hayate. s.lk --> EX Oroshi. Those 3 are always going to be descent options after a hayate, youll just have to learn when to use them and how to combine them. A plain EX Oroshi is a bit slow, so I try to stay away from doing it by itself.
These dont work well:
-All of the options I told you about how to get a karakusa on wakeup do not work very well after a hayate.
Well, I really hope that helps.