So, I’m moving over from N groove to K groove and I want to take Sagat with me.
He’s a swine in any groove, so that’s no problem. But - what’s my angle with K groove Sagat?
I don’t like the idea of losing all my ready level 1 supers - out of all my characters I value Sagat’s level 1s the most (hmm - maybe with the exception of blanka’s super ball? 
). What should I be going for after a ground based JD, or an AA JD?
Why do you want Level 1s? Level 1 priority sucks ass. The best thing you can with a Level 1 with Sagat is low fierce XX low tiger cannon.
Remember that Just Defending gives you zero frame advantage, it just cuts your blockstun short. So, depending on what move they are doing, you may not be able to retaliate at all. You really can’t lose trying to DP or c.fp though, just for the hell of it.
Since you play N Groove, you should already know about short jump roundhouse -> Level 3 Tiger Raid as a quasi-unblockable. Rushing down with a full Ikari Gauge is pretty fucked up too, since you got a 35% attack bonus. Just rush shit down. If you don’t get a chance to land a super, just low fierce XX tiger cannon when you’re meter’s almost out while they are blocking for some nice chip and guard crush damage.
I play K-groove Sagat. What i’ve found is, in K-groove, you need to play a VERY offensive based game. Poke strings, links, and waking supers can become very effective.
However, you will need to master the art of just defense. I can not stress this enough. The importance of Just defending is very valuable.
its probably not the best guide, but here is a mini-guide to a k-groove sagat
Anti-Air’s — small hop fp does wonders, then ur dragon punch, then since your in k-groove you can always just defend it and work from there
Pokes — same as any other groove, except u just get more opportunites to poke in k-groove since of the run and JD, very good gaurd break opportunities…that lead to GOOOD damage
small hop - small hop with a rh most of the time, sometimes i small hop with a lk because something is out prioritizing my rh or hitting me before the rh comes out, and in those cases small hop with a lk and it will stuff their move and leave u in a good position…oh, of course u can always do an empty small jump for mind games, but usually this comes off of knockdowns and what not
after a JD — personally, after a JD on the ground, i just throw a c.fp, c.mk, c.rh depending on range, circumstances, and where i want the fight to go, like…if i have been defensive the whole game, and it isn’t working good, jd then c.rh…there a knockdown, time to start sagat’s deadly rushdown. if i have been somewhat offensive, i’ll probably stick a c.fp in there to work on their guard. c.mk is sometimes just an instinct i have if they are close, just c.mk, to a low fireball.
after an air JD — this all depends on whether u just defended an air-to-air then i would stick a rh in, if you just defended their AA i would just be defensive and look for them to try and hit you before you come down, and in turn either decide to try and out prioritize them with a rh or JD until out of range, which can sometimes be a bitch
honkey tonk, don’t be depressed about you losing his level 1’s, the difference i think that makes k-groove a REAL turnoff is the fact that there is no super to sit on…and i gotta admit, sometimes i wish that the damn meter lasted a little longer, but trust me, the time they give you is AMPLE time to make up for your level ones, in an easier fashion too! wanna know how? ONE c.fp = a lvl 1 (appx) i mean, ur power is SOOO increased when u are raged i feel it is worth it.
anybody who can answer my questions please post: I am wondering how much regular jumping should you do in k-groove, i mean you do have the option of JD in k-groove, but it pops you up and that sometimes leads to really bad things. the real use of JD in the air i see is to bait out a lv3 that somebody is sitting on, some say air-to-air attacks…my thing is…just beat them with your attack, i guess if that fails you can try JD’ing it, but sagat has good air-to-air attacks so in his case he doesn’t need it.
also…mummy-b, the quasi unblockable you talk about…what you do is small jump with rh, then go into a tiger raid and it will hit low and they won’t be able to block it due to blockstun of the rh? i should really start employing that in my sagat if that is true. usually i just go for the guardbreak like…i dunno; usually when u get them to block a small jump rh, if you follow up with another small jump rh they will block it too…that is mad guard damage, but yeah, tell me what you (mummy-b) and anybody else thinks and has anything to add
OK, so I’m getting into this K groove stuff.
Not too bad, really, though I’m realising that you need to get many many JDs out for the groove to be really effective. At first I’d instinctively go for the block rather than JD, and I found the groove just plain nasty (I was only really getting rage after getting hit myself). But, I’m getting through that now, and although my JDing isn’t bang on right now, I’m definitely getting there. And, as you all well know, if you can rage like 2-3 times a round it helps plenty.
I’ve pretty much waved goodbye to my lovely level 1s - I liked them so much since you can tag them on the end of running pokes and stuff - for some reason I always found sagat’s fp the easy thing in the game to buffer supers from… I’m sure that’s a mental thing.
Mummy-B… I was so dissapointed at first when I realised you can’t retaliate after a JD! I mean, I knew it wasn’t like parrying, but I’d read in Shoryuken about being able to get quick sweeps and things in. Still - if I keep going with the JD, surely my instincts will be good enough to know when I can get in there? I know that Kyo can get a whole load of damage from a combo starting with c.Mp after a JD - Sagat couldn’t get a super combo out after a JD, even if I JD a fp or something? hmm… It’s just got to be automatic I suppose, and I’m not there at all yet…
I think my playing style is becoming more defensive after switching to K groove - probably because practicing my JD is uppermost in my mind. Also - people turtle like mad when I’m raged… especially this Terry I play, who sits on his rising tackle waiting to out-rowdy me again when my rage wears off.
can somebody just explain the quasi-unblockable in detail? is it really just as simple as small hop rounhouse xx tiger raid???
I play sagat in k-groove and I usually rush. I jump/small jump with RH. If I regular/super jump I watch to see if I am going to JD or attack right away. Small jumping is seriously wicked though. Cause the offence is so good. And u have to remember to basically play smart too, cause u can’t depend on one thing. Its cool when u opponent tries to distance u out on the small jump and u land and JD right away. Its a good rush cause u got priority and speed so that u don’t spend alot of time in the small jump where u could get hit.
Anyways…thats just one thing I like to do. Just play smart try to adjust quickly since u have jd and good rushing tools.
what you can do after you JD an attack really depends on what attack you JDed. if you JD something with considerable lag, you can c.fierce back. some examples off the top of my head: chun li’s c.rh, sagat’s c.rh, (basically anyone’s c.rh), sagat’s s.fierce, blanka’s c.fierce, blanka’s oc.fierce, blanka ball, vega’s roll attack thingy, the list really goes on. if you JD fierces or roundhouses or close fireballs, or anything with considerable recovery, you can probably hit them back.
if you JD another sagat’s c.fierce, you cannot c.fierce them back. it’s hard to even super them back. so if you’re playing another K groover, don’t be afraid of having your c.fierces JDed (for the most part).
after JDing low jump attacks, you can usually nail them with something because of the lag after you do an attack in a low jump. also if you JD a regular jump in attack, depending on the height they were at when you JD, you may be able to throw or start c.short block strings to shift momentum.
the stun reduction from JD is nothing like parry, this is true, but even if you can’t hit them back, you can often throw them or force them to block something, and that’s enough to change the momentum of a match in your favor.
Ive only had the game a week and im no where near as savvy as you guys (i dont understand half the terms on this site :rolleyes: )
but ive just beat CPU lvl 6, S: U.Rugal with a K:Sagat the JD against casual projectiles is like free super bar power and getting raged out so fast is great for punching your super fireball through others projectiles, well it helped me whoop a lvl 6 U.Rugal and im a n00b 
If you JD a C.fierce you have only a few frames to hit them back, only characters with fast jabs at point blank will work… actually you can link a low super after the c.fierce and if they didn’t JD low you should still hit them. S.fierce has much more delay by comparison.
It works, its just not unblockable 100%.
If they arent blocking low when the super flashes, it is then pretty much unblockable.
Another 1337 tactic is to empty low jump at them and then lvl3 hotfoot that shit.
They will be expecting a high attack from the jump, and will be blocking high, then they get a low lvl 3 in the face.
Jason Cole did it a few times at UCLA when I played with him there.
He was rushing the fuck down, run cr. fierce, run cr. short, low jump round house, run cr. short cr short, low jump empty, lvl 3…
His K-Sagat is pimp.
And if my opponent blocked high I can throw him but that too isn’t 100%. Blah Blah
It’s a good tactic though.
even though you don’t gain frame advantage to punish whatever you JD’d you do gain meter AND a pixel of life back. every bit of life is valuable…
i cannot tell you how many times i’ve won with just a sliver of health left. all those JD’s add up. if i hadn’t JD’d in every game i played in K i would’ve been KO’ed already
yeah lol I played ray-sama before. He jded JUST enough so that he had a sliver of health. Meanwhile I had a lot of health and couldn’t manage to take out that little bit of health. He made a nice comeback.
Back to K Sagat. Uh I don’t use that jump in RH -> Tiger Raid. Competition around my arcade is fierce so they won’t expect that crap.You MIGHT want to learn cr.short, s.jab,s,jab, cr.mk into low tiger cannon but ppl mess it up all the time so i stick with run -> cr.mk into tiger cannon. Just safer. You should try to use the cross up lk. If it links, do s.jab or cr.short 2x into tiger raid. Or if you wanna get fancy and do extra damage, s.jab -> s.fierce -> tiger raid. Probably 8000 damage. BTW don’t abuse the low jump…use it when you need to get in a tiger raid. If you see the guy crouching, low jump. Don’t JD TOO much…or else you’ll get thrown amongst other things. Don’t jump too much either and JD…you’ll get punished from losing tripguard.
Sagat’s low jump HK, hit confirm super is one of the deadliest weapons in the game and one of the biggest reasons K-Sagat is so good.
Run, random d.MK with K-Sagat isn’t safe. K-groove has no block, JD, or roll when they’re running. Plus Sagat leans hella forward in his run animation.
The counter to random run with K-Sagat when you have another Sagat is to stick out your far s.MK. It’ll stop running K-Sagat from really far away. What’s he going to do when he’s running? Instant stop with no skid, make you whiff, and punish your MK with s.HP xx super? Running roll? Running JD? Don’t think so…
K-Sagat leans so far forward when he’s running even another Sagat’s far s.HP and d.HP will stop him when he wants to run forward and burn his super.
The low jump RH into tiger raid doesn’t work against the ppl i play (imo). They’re…too good lol. Oh and I wasn’t really trying to say that you should run from really far away. You can do it as wake up or maybe run a tiny distance. Running is obviously not good from full screen but I was just trying to include a method to get in a super. Perhaps I’m explaining it wrong.
no guys you got it ALL wrong, you gotta go more advance than that, and fake the small jump roundhouse and fake the empty jump tiger raid and punch throw their ass. DO it TWICE. then do empty jump tiger raid. then SCREAM REALLY LOUd and act like you’re crazy so they get thrown off even more and do super jump fierce, land, tigeruppercut. :tup:
haha I’ve seen ppl scream really loudly but that’s because they go crazy cuz they lost. besides…if you fake a low jump, they can just dp you since you can’t JD.
Well, who the fuck is gonna DP a low jump on reaction, especially when you have been doing low jump RH most of the time you low jump anyways.
Sagat in K groove is too fucking good, not as good as C Sagat full meter, no doubt but K is his best incarnation after C groove. P and N Sagat are good but P Sagat won’t always have meter (but Parry is hella good) and N Sagat is good, being able to RC, Run, AND Low Jump is good for almost everyone.
Sagat is good in K because he still maintains most of the things that make him good. He loses Roll, but gains low jump, His roll is ok, but he doesn’t gain much from RC anyways (other than RC Tiger Uppercut for a totally invincible Anti Air) Low Jump with Sagat is good, I need to use his low jumps more, but Low jump RH is so good for getting in on people.
You may argue that Sagat loses something without RC or the ability to store supers, but he gets Rage and JD. JD can lead to clean hits for Sagat and Rage is rage, 35% damage bonus and what not. Sagat is aimed towards Rushdown but can still turtle when needed in K groove, being raged just makes the opponent play more cautious, but when you’re rushing them down, unless they’re Justin, Choi, Ortiz or any other top player, chances are, they’re not gonna stay calm.
Low Jump tricks are so evil when Sagat is raged, empty low jump Tiger Raid works. But why blow all your super when you can get more damage in before supering, empty low jump Throw when raged does ludicrious (sp?) damage. low jump roundhouse is always there.
I talked to Justin a while ago and he said Sagat is rushdown orientated (I mentioned this before), rush down when needed, and turtle when you have a good lead.
High Tiger Cannon as Antiair (time it like a deep tiger uppercut)
Low Tiger Cannon as combo “finisher” (c.MK, c.Fierce, c.short s.jabx2 c.short)
Tiger Raid as "random super that hits low and if you ain’t clocking down, you’re hit"
Tiger Genocide, No reason EVER to use this unless the opponent is dizzy and will die to this. I’m pretty sure c.fierce into Cannon will do more than this.