K Geese is top tier because?

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

I hear that K Geese is top-tier in Japan. I also hear that Cammy, Geese, Blanka 2 is the strongest K team. Some things I don’t understand.

I can’t see how K Geese is top-tier. Sure, he does a lot of damage when raged. Sure, he has an awesome cross-up with damaging mixups.

But the thing is, I can’t see how Geese can set up those sort of things. I think his footsies game is weak. Sagat whiffs a cr. fierce, what do you do? Sweep?

Also, the man is freakin’ huge. He can’t crouch a lot of things, like Sagat st. fierce. His normals make him bigger than he already is and thus, make him susceptable to all sorts of stuff. Versus Sagat, it seems that his only reliable tool is cr. roundhouse, and that thing’s risky!

And don’t get me started with A Sakura. Seems to me the only thing he can do about RC Hurricane Kicks is guess a counter. Not fun at all.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is this: Is the reason why he’s considered top-tier his damaging mix-ups? What is it that he has that makes him considered top-tier? Or at least very good.

2

everything leads to c.lp, c.rh aka knockdown. you can prevent safe fall by throwing a lp strength fireball. of course u know all that, and about his CRAZY GOOD CROSSOVERS. the guard damage is incredible. he can easily guard crush somebody…as well as DIZZY THEM.

He has really good links such as c.lp, c.mk, rush super type thing. and c.lpx3, c.rh. then the punishing combo.

the counters are somewhat a counter to roll cancelling, at least the RC’s that are better punished with a counter rather than JD’ing (ex: spinning bird kick since he can’t duck it).

at the right distance s.rh is unpunishable too.

all these things make him great in k-groove…but i wouldn’t say top tier. if anything i’d say k-sagat is the one MUST on a k-groove team.

3

i really dont know if i consider k geese top tier, he is one of my main characters BUT i dont know if he is THAT good, but i do know that he is good…

his counter will get you out of some things at the right time and they are a MAJOR momentem shifter, it sets you up for anything you want. He breaks gaurd easily, his c.rh is probably one of the best in the game. Modified fireballs are really good if you can do them consistantly in small jump grooves but many people dont use this move. Small jump rh is monsterous, it has major reach and lots of priority. His c.fp anti air is rediculous good one of the best imo. his versitility you can play him rushdown or turtle even keep away. and geese doesnt really have THAT many bad matchs ups and his bad ones are still not that bad, they are still doable…

against sagat c.rh works, s.mp at right distance takes out sagats c.fp, dont use s.rh against sagat, s.fp does good against sagat also because he cannot duck it. wait for opportunity to cross up, if you do land a cross up sagat minimally looses 60% of his bar probably more if hes not super paying attention for dp interrupts on none comboing stuff. but sagat is one of his harder fights, i like going up against blanka more than sagat with geese…

im outi

Roberth

4

His cr. fierce is good anti-air if they’re jumping right on top of you. If they’re jumping at an angle that’s more to the front (I guess from further away), like Sagat far jumping roundhouse or Blanka low jump roundhouse, cr. fierce seems to trade at best. At times like those, it seems that Geese has to rely on JD.

I can’t see how Geese is the rush down type. He doesn’t have a fast, super cancel-able move to punish whiffs with (like Sagat st. fierce, Chun-Li st. strong, Cammy st. roundhouse). His walking speed is also slow, so I rarely find opportunities to throw outside of JD and cross ups.

If by rush down you mean, running up and doing random, high-priority moves (Cammy’s scrub rushdown) or running jab rushdown, then hmmmm. I don’t know, maybe you could elaborate? That would be great.

All this talk about Sagat. Maybe I should play him instead. :lol:

5

heat outlined his pressure tactics well…

small hop rh is very good because of the range it has on it and the priority it has on it. he can small hop from a good distance and yet still be effective.

i don’t know the frame data on his c.mk, but puts a fair amount of blockstun on your opponent with ample recovery. think of it as a watered down bison c.mk

c.lp’s are GREAT. i know the frame data on that move is great, probably just a little off the mark of ryu and ken’s c.lp. one frame less probably. still a great ran-canceled move.

in k-groove, you can waste the rush super type thing he has just to get rid of some of the opponents guardmeter. just cancel a c.mk into his hcb,f lk super, then stop after the first lp, and tack on a lil guard string. just a nice lil sumtin to add to geese.

i am not saying geese is top tier either. i am just sayin geese is amongst the best in k-groove.

6

don’t forget his counters build meter too

7

Yeah, i does, but I think is BS too. Oh weellll

8

trading against those high priority moves is good enough, since geese can take hits. if you dont want to trade you can high counter, if you do land one of these it gets tricky on their next jump in they might try to empty jump to bait your counter than land to punish it…so you have to be careful with your jump ins, but normally that counter will put you in a major advantage.

he has c.rh, crounching rh doesnt cancel into super…well it does but its not really practicle but it does cancel into fireballs (added pressure), you dont really need super cancable moves with geese, most of the time geese lands super from guard crushing OR combo, that is what you are looking for. and most throw opportunites come from cross ups, where you are up close to opponent, i mean most of the time someone is not going to walk up on your and throw you from halfway across the screen especially if you throwing out random pokes even if they try its easy to tech throw…

ya see, geeses rushdown is weird, whats interesting is sometimes his rushdown isnt even rushdown it just looks like that because you have done like 3 moves and did almost all their guard bar and opponent starts panicing because hes about to be gc so situations like this may seem like hes rushing down…random note ignore that haha…

ok here is what geeses rushdown revovles around. 1 small jump rh this move is REALLY good and will get you in, from there you have some options depending how deep you did this you can c.mk or c.lp, these cancel into fireball more pressure. 2 small jump fp its 2 hits and you can combo super easily off it if you see it hit, this gets you in also giving you more options. 3 s.rh this move is pritty hard to react to and it does mad guard damage, from this again depending how deep you have some options like another s.rh, c.rh. c.mk, this also is a set up for low counter (many people try to trip you) and super…

some options off his cross up (because you are abusing his oh sooo good c.rh you will get a knock down eventually) cross up mk, c.lp, c.lk, fp fireball combos 5 hit if its blocked mad gaurd damage, cross up mk c.lp x3 c.rh, all combos you can throw fireball if you want off c.rh…cross up mk, c.lp, c.fp or s.fp, fireball…after all this shit you can run in a little s.rh for even more gaurd if they blocked it…you can also just do like run in c.jabs or c.lk’s after they stop comboing because his c.lk has range its deceiving…

against sagat here is a normal guard string i do, cross up c.mk c.lp x3 run in c.lp, c.lk, s.fp (this doest combo but he cant duck it) you can mix it up anytime with F+Fp (cancels into fireball for even more pressure) after the run in c.lp c.lk go for another cross up, or c.rh or fireball or s.rh or small jump rh, or empty small jump into whatever…

geeses game imo is supposed to be in your face or like the max distance his c.rh can hit, this is the area your geese should be in most of the time…IMO at least, because thats were i see him most effective…

its hard to explain his rushdown, anyones rushdown in general what you going to say? run in this n that, everyone has that, its mater of mind games and how you mix it up that makes it rushdown down, these mind games and mix ups make opponents freeze up mental block and their character stops moving and your attacking because of this, that is what rushdown is to me…

im outi

Roberth

9

move that does the most guard damage is standing and holding forward fierce punch.

what i do when i cross up is: (When j.mk doesn’t hit) c.lpx2, c.mk then react or juss freestyle on it

          (when j.mk does hit) c.lp, s.fp, hcb+lk (or mk too i think)
10

Jaiken B&B = free dizzy… In any groove Geese is a dizzy machine (much like Kyo) and a guard crush monster. Geese isn’t top tier, but he is upper tier due to his GC ability, dizzy ability, high damage, high life points, great normals, and solid supers.

11

I think Geese has some runaway potential too. TK Shippukken sends you back a small distance and is fairly safe if you don’t abuse it and become predictable. I especially like it with K Geese because it will make your opponent either try to zone you or rushdown, both can get you some easy JD’s or counters.

12

K Geese is the fucking shit. Rush down c.lp’s can get pretty gruesome. Add along c.lk, c.mk for range, short hop hp and hk to build pressure and you got a solid motherfucker on K. I use K Vega, Geese and Chun. The rushdown is too much!:evil:

13

If by both ways you mean that he can be offensive and defensive, than you don’t leave a lot for me to believe. Could you elaborate? Also, while Raging Storm is good, can you pull it off all the time? Seriously though, when someone’s jumping at me, I would most likely do cr. fierce. Raging Storm is almost impractical. Maybe if the super motion were simpler then yes, I would say he has a great anti-air super but not the best.

**

Personally, I don’t think anyone will do full screen Blanka ball/super for you to counter like that. Right now, the only way I can think of using his counter is after you knock your opponent down and assume they’ll wake up with a super. I think that’s really, REALLY risky and I would just rather stand over them and just defend/throw option select.

Countering supers is pretty risky and random. Personally unless I have a huge lead, I wouldn’t risk it.

**

Again, you really should elaborate on this. It’s not much help when you just drop by and say he’s good.

Geese is tall and such, I would think he would have a hard time against Sagat. St. Fierce is so good against Geese and Geese’s own st. fierce is not good against Sagat. Sure Sagat can’t duck under it, but it has shorter range then Sagat’s. So what this means is that, Sagat keeps you away and your st. fierce is rendered useless. And while you’re desperately trying to poke him with st. fierce, he smacks you in the face with st. fierce xx Super Tiger Shot. At least, that’s how I see it.

Also, he can’t duck under Sakura standing jab. Maybe it’s only a problem here in Texas, but Sakura has that annoying RC hurricane kick, st. jab/throw mixups. I don’t know about the people on these forums, but I can’t JD every random RC hurricane kick that gets thrown at me nor can I “anticipate it” and counter accordingly. Her hurricane kick gives her frame advantage so she can walk up and do that stupid mixup. But then again, I guess I could always work on my JDing.

By the way, st. jab/throw mixup can be pretty good against characters who don’t have a dragon punch. Just think back to the CvS1 days and all the Nakoruru fights. Stupid.

Geese is slow slow slow. Who’s he gonna rush down? Certainly not the ~70% characters that are faster than him. Then there are characters that can keep him out or run around that don’t really give him much of an opportunity to “rush down.” Vega and Rolento give him a lot of problems because they can effectively keep him out where he can’t guard crush or mix up or exploit his other strengths.

He’s also got that stupid ground fireball, which I’m not to particularly keen about. Bison, Honda, and Blanka should be able to play a careful keep away game on Geese if they manage to get some distance. You could always fall back on the random jump-in and JD everything method, but that only gets you so far. Air fireballs don’t help because those 3 characters are mostly played in rolling grooves. Geese’s air fireballs have that annoying habit of bouncing him back up, giving rollers ample time to combo you.

Geese has bad match ups, he’s not THAT good. Yes he’s cock-strong when raged, yes he does do a lot of guard crush, yes he does have a useful crossup with good mixups. But when you factor in his height and speed, a lot of characters can keep him out and negate those strengths.

As of now, I still can’t see how K-Geese can be considered top-tier.