There’s a reason why the pros are pros and the others aren’t. For those of you that think its cheap, let that very thought simmer in your mind for a while and maybe you’ll appreciate pro level play a bit more.
Baiting opponents doesn’t stop at what happens on screen, but there’s another dimension outside of the X and Y axis. That’s using your real life movements and sounds (within reason of course), to utilize these tools to enhance your battles. This benefits both you and your opponent. You can use this to understand when an opponent’s mannerisms, or you might be using to bait an opponent / fool the opponent into a particular response. It’s especially not cheap when your opponent has access to the very same abilities. Only difference is, one player is more intimately familiar with it than the other.
This is playing to win. You should read Sirlin’s book sometime.
EDIT: Yes, I do admit using this tactic to help augment my battles. And if there’s a situation I’m incapable of doing so, that’s not a hindrance to my fights at all whatsoever, just another rule I have to abide by in a particular circumstance.
Not everyone feels that videogames should extend into real life baits and such. Personally I prefer for the entirety of the battle to be played on screen.
If that makes me a scrub so be it. Would probably make scrubs out of a lot of arcade players though.
edit Not to say I haven’t glanced at my opponents controlls to see if they’re holding a charge during mash holds or something (it’s right there in the corner of my eye). But I think that if the setup doesn’t allow me (and the other guy) to do that the games would have been better.
This. 1000 times this. Listening/Taking a quick glance to see if they’re holding a button/charge, I.E., rog’s TAP or Juri’s Fireballs isn’t cheating, it’s something that’s allowed and a viable tactic. And I’m pretty sure I’ve said it before:
If you hate people doing that to you, don’t slam your buttons so hard so they can hear, and scoot your chair behind them if possible. If they scoot back, keep scooting as far as you can if you’re that determined to not have somebody try it on you. “Chairsies”.
Listening to inputs cheap? LOLOL!!! You guys obviously don’t know what goes on in high-level guilty gear matches.
Fake burst happens all the time at very critical moments. Some people even go as far to yell “BURST!” While hitting their P+S buttons VERY LOUDLY!
Also, mashing respect instead of a recovery button to bait airthrows, then actually tech->anti air. Hell, I don’t even have my respect button CONNECTED and I do this.
On wakeup, Slayer is obviously doing 236236 motion for his reversal super, then backdashing away?
TL;DR-> A bunch of newkids thinking oldschool auditory tactics are cheap. If you don’t want people to utilize this against you, play softly
auditory tricks aren’t cheap. Only an idiot would say since its been there from day 1. I literally found out about this the game first dropped into arcades. It must of been used for other games and got transfered into SF.
Olympic sprinters use auditory signals from the gun rather than visually looking @ the gun. The reason being that hearing something can increase your reaction time by 15-20% which is quite significant. So hearing something and reacting to it will always be faster than using your eyes. This is science and its pretty hard ignore. Fighting game players use ANY factor that could potentially increase their advantage.
I respect you, but I don’t believe your post to be true for several reasons. Your post isn’t science, it’s an amalgamation of misinformation.
Reaction time varies from individual to individual. When received simultaneously, some people are more likely to react to visual stimuli, while others react to audial.
The reason the audial cue works in games is that it always proceeds the visual since the button has to be pressed and there’s an inherent delay between that and the move coming out.
Sprinters listen for the gun because your body has a tendency to run where you’re looking. If they turn to the side to see the gun they slow themselves down by having to redirect.
Light travels faster than sound so visual stimulus will always reach the target before audial.
If you have a link or something to back up what you’re saying, especially the 15-20% part, I’d really like to see it for my own edification.
Many researchers have confirmed that reaction to sound is faster than reaction to light, with mean auditory reaction times being 140-160 msec and visual reaction times being 180-200 msec (Galton, 1899; Woodworth and Schlosberg, 1954; Fieandt et al., 1956; Welford, 1980; Brebner and Welford, 1980). Perhaps this is because an auditory stimulus only takes 8-10 msec to reach the brain (Kemp et al., 1973), but a visual stimulus takes 20-40 msec (Marshall et al., 1943). Reaction time to touch is intermediate, at 155 msec (Robinson, 1934). Differences in reaction time between these types of stimuli persist whether the subject is asked to make a simple response or a complex response (Sanders, 1998, p. 114).
while light may be faster than sound, apparently the brain processes sound MUCH faster than any visual cue. It was pretty weird when I read that the first time too but other papers about reaction time all say the same thing.
average human reaction time with light is about 200ms. Off an auditory stimuli, it can be roughly 160 ms which is a 40ms difference which equates to about 20% faster.
it probably has something to do with the way humans evolved. Your eyes can only see about 120 degrees or something like that. However, sound is 360 degrees, it surrounds you every where. Perhaps this sense in particular was chosen by evolution for a faster startle reflex since you can’t see attackers in a 360 degree view.
[LIST]They should have people play in sound proof booths with only a monitor to look at to guarantee there is no audio or visual cheating. [/LIST]
[LIST]Ive played on h2h where you can hear the other player doing motions on occasion. At ffa of all places and that place is hella loud.[/LIST]
[LIST]Evo is an american console tournament, not a foreign arcade tournament. Be prepared since you know this now happens here. (I know this guy baited me two times with the same move, yet I still continue to fall for it. The fault lies on who now?)[/LIST]
[LIST]Fuck all this metagame garbage talk. It all compiles to “playing to win”! Playing my game isn’t the same as playing your game, the only thing that is constant is we are both playing <insert game name here> marvel, ssf4, tekken, guilty gear, ST, 3S, kof times infinity whatever.
[/LIST]
Personally, I think there should be a clearly-defined area at each station where players must stay. They’d be able to sit, or hell, even STAND if they wanted, on a chair, or on the floor, but being situated outside that zone would be a penalty if an official were called.
This would put an end to the chair-placement shenanigans in a simple, easily seen, and fair manner. After that, if you can listen to your opponent’s sticks, or care to look away AT what he’s doing, more power to you.
Here’s how I’d see such a rule being implemented:
Competitor Seating: Both competitors must be situated within the marked area in front of their station. If a chair is used, it must be completely within the boundaries. Failure to do so will result in a (likely round; it’s probably the lightest penalty that can be given) loss after a warning by a tournament official.
It’s a part of the game, and based on mindgames rather than pure reactions.
I remember in Tekken 4 when we heard a stick noise before christie’s throw we knew it’s a rodeo and pressed 1+2(we didn’t crouch because it could also be qcf+3). Then the christie player just countered with doing hcf+regular throws.
I also mash loudly on purpose during block strings in SF4 so people will think I’m trying to DP when I’m just mashing d/b really.
You should really get in the habit of looking at your opponent’s stick during oki, and look for the big slow super move motions on wakeup.
Also oldest bait in the book- ryu’s qcf+k or qcb+p