Well HP rekkas should be +1 on block after an fadc so no you actually shouldn’t be able to get punished for fadc rekkas. To me it just seems funny how I’ve always thought that it was so slow and yet it’s actually one of the fastest dashes in the game for the distance it travels.
Picking up Yang because I think he’s going to be gawdlike in 2013 when it probably comes out. Expect to see me asking and answering a lot of questions in the coming weeks guys.
Target combo 1, I started thinking if it could be used in a match after watching this. [media=youtube]_1eJLFaDyPw[/media]
Can the target combo be useful and used often in situations such as this? Or was the Ibuki player just slow on reaction.
<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Exarkun”>Target combo 1, I started thinking if it could be used in a match after watching this. [media=youtube]_1eJLFaDyPw[/media]<br />
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Can the target combo be useful and used often in situations such as this? Or was the Ibuki player just slow on reaction.</blockquote>
Well it can be used just like any jump-in except it has the benefit of breaking focus. It’s pretty situational though and doesn’t have any other benefits really.
<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Julpero”>Well HP rekkas should be +1 on block after an fadc so no you actually shouldn’t be able to get punished for fadc rekkas. To me it just seems funny how I’ve always thought that it was so slow and yet it’s actually one of the fastest dashes in the game for the distance it travels.</blockquote>
Fierce Rekka and Jab Rekka are both +1 on block after a FADC? that I didn’t know. I always thought it was on the negative with the -2/-4. Julpero do you know the frame advantages after a FADC. I keep getting hit by mashing c. jabs after a fadc rekka.
<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Julpero”><blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Exarkun”>Target combo 1, I started thinking if it could be used in a match after watching this. [media=youtube]_1eJLFaDyPw[/media]<br />
<br />
Can the target combo be useful and used often in situations such as this? Or was the Ibuki player just slow on reaction.</blockquote>
Well it can be used just like any jump-in except it has the benefit of breaking focus. It’s pretty situational though and doesn’t have any other benefits really.
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Yea and the divekicks Kyoku does after that are fairly unsafe or the player just does not punish. I started giving up on divekicks when I started focusing more on my ground game. Kyoku uses his Dives at the height restriction limit and usually hits under the knees or near them in his videos. I wish that pesky height restriction was gone.
<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Exarkun”><blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Julpero”>Well HP rekkas should be +1 on block after an fadc so no you actually shouldn’t be able to get punished for fadc rekkas. To me it just seems funny how I’ve always thought that it was so slow and yet it’s actually one of the fastest dashes in the game for the distance it travels.</blockquote>
Fierce Rekka and Jab Rekka are both +1 on block after a FADC? that I didn’t know. I always thought it was on the negative with the -2/-4. Julpero do you know the frame advantages after a FADC. I keep getting hit by mashing c. jabs after a fadc rekka.
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I think rekkas are +1 specifically after the second HP rekka. So are you getting hit out of that after fadc on block or hit? Either way I’d recommend practicing it on a blocking training mode dummy to tighten your blockstrings. I see a lot of people using clst. MP after the rekkas on block and at least they’re landing counterhits so I’d imagine it’s +frames.
<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Julpero”><blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Exarkun”><blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“Julpero”>Well HP rekkas should be +1 on block after an fadc so no you actually shouldn’t be able to get punished for fadc rekkas. To me it just seems funny how I’ve always thought that it was so slow and yet it’s actually one of the fastest dashes in the game for the distance it travels.</blockquote>
Fierce Rekka and Jab Rekka are both +1 on block after a FADC? that I didn’t know. I always thought it was on the negative with the -2/-4. Julpero do you know the frame advantages after a FADC. I keep getting hit by mashing c. jabs after a fadc rekka.
</blockquote>
I think rekkas are +1 specifically after the second HP rekka. So are you getting hit out of that after fadc on block or hit? Either way I’d recommend practicing it on a blocking training mode dummy to tighten your blockstrings. I see a lot of people using clst. MP after the rekkas on block and at least they’re landing counterhits so I’d imagine it’s +frames.
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After the second rekka I FADC and during the dash while I am standing ready to attack with a follow up c. Jab beats my normals. I was reading the frame data and always want to be at a + when it comes with strings or mixups and avoid 3 frame reversals or possible EX reversals. However I didn’t know after the Second Rekka into FADC the rekka is a +1. The frame data says otherwise and the block is on a - for Yang. I always assumed just from reading the frame data that yang was unsafe. But this is the information I need to look for and use during a match to keep stun up from mixups and or strings during corner situations. This information is rad simply put : )
Yo I’ll just check this thing in training mode. Wait a sec.
Oh crap, it’s at least -2. Sorry about that. I guess I’m just playing crappy opponents then.
FADC after Fierce Slash 2 is not -2, Yang can neutral jump immediately afterwards and escape 0-frame reversal command grabs.
Going by the frame data Fierce Slash 2 on hit would go from -6 on hit to +8 just to allow the dash ultra to be possible, but even then I feel there’s a tiny bit of leniency that means it’s +9 or +10(I believe this is the one I heard it is before).
So we can say FADC’ing a slash adds on 14-16 frames of advantage, Slash 2 would go from -10 on block to +4-6, which is supported by the fact that I can set-up a recording of Yang doing Fierce Slash 2 FADC into close stand strong(5 frame start-up) and the opponent can’t mash a reversal in between this on block.
Ok my fadc must have been late then. I recorded Yang just doing rekka fadc against Chun-li and both medium and hard kick versions of her super punished it.
Ok, so fierce rekka 1st hit into fadc blocked gives a +2 frame advantage and standing strong is 5 on startup can be used for frametraps. When Fierce slash is -6 on block for the first hit. and the LP is -2. So the FADC cancels the recovery frames so is there any frame advantages while FADC and dashing and setting up a frame trap with standing strong? or is it better to just back dash.
What are the differences between playing yun and yang?
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Yang
Basically take any move from here, figure out how much hitstun something does, and then subtract the time for an FADC.
Hitstun = Recovery(this includes active frames after the first hitting frame) + frame advantage.
FADC Frame Advantage = Hitstun - FADC, which I believe is 3(focus start-up)+18(dash).
Fierce Slash 1 advantage is 1(extra active frames)+30(recovery)-6(frame advantage) = 25
Fierce Slash 1 FADC advantage is 25 - 21 = 4 on block.
It appears only Fierce Slash 1 and 2 have good frame advantage, everything else looks to be +1.
This is exactly the source I was looking for!!! Thank you so much Brozen, much much much appreciated!! I did not know the math for focus attack property attacks! You are a rad gentleman, thank you.
If MP Palm xx FADC, cst.LP is a 1f link, then:
Active frames cancelled: 8f
Recovery cancelled: 17f
FA before dash cancel: 3f
Dash: 18f
Normal advantage on block: -7
Normal advantage on hit: 0
Advantage on hit after FADC: +4
which basically checks out for everything (3f before you can dash cancel your focus attack cancels, 18f forward dash.) If you used Yang in AE, you probably felt that QCB+MP xx FADC F, U2 was a hell of a lot easier than cst.LP was. I believe this actually resulted from Yang having the ability to cancel his forward dash into special attacks before he actually finishes the dash. Judging on how piss easy QCF+HP ~ QCF+HP xx FADC F, U1 is once you get the motions down, it’s probably still true. The backdash was documented as losing this ability, so it’s probably safe to assume that it has the same duration (1f.)
Also TC1 is important in match ups where you need to use dive kick. TC3 is pretty awesome in general. -2 on block, breaks 90% of focus attacks, knockdown on hit, can combo into roll kicks if you get them in the corner with it (probably U2 as well.) Only real downside is that the second hit is gonna whiff if you aren’t fairly close to them so it doesn’t become broken. TC2 is…well, kinda “meh” now. Damage down, fst.MP hit box sucks (and is much safer than either part of the TC), and it doesn’t push them back on block as much anymore either. It has still has uses (ie out of TC3 range against focus fishing in footsies) but the fst.MP nerf hurts a lot (as does pushback and even worse frames…)
That depends on the opponent you are facing and how deep you are with target combo 1 and how low the divekick actually hits. I am not sure what you mean but where you need to use divekick? If you watch matches of Kyoku (active JP yang player) you will see how his footsies are. It’s mentioning that he does not jump when out of Raigekishuu range instead he closes the gap between that range and uses it for +frames on block, except against a few situations where shotos have longer recovery from projectiles Ryu (40-45) Ken (47) Akuma (44) Sakura (48) Gouken (41) Oni (54 total). This means jumping fierce out of Rage of divekick is alright if you are able to read the projectile and execute a attack before recovery. To be honest breaker, I only use TG1 against players such as Hakkan, and Gief, since Jumping Neutral Fierce can beat giefs lariat and going from neutral jump into crouch against Hakkan will make his grapple whiff.
<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/4557/Exarkun">Exarkun</a> wrote: <a href="/discussion/comment/7984824#Comment_7984824" class=“QuoteLink”><span class=“ArrowLink”>»</span></a></div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>snip</div>
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No problem, I’m glad everything checks out so I apparently got the math right, I was just guessing on the focus start-up from leftovers from previous calculations.
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/57167/The%20Breaker">The Breaker</a> wrote: <a href="/discussion/comment/7985013#Comment_7985013" class=“QuoteLink”><span class=“ArrowLink”>»</span></a></div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>snip</div>
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I believe you’re right about the special cancelling the last frame or so, checking with Fierce slash 1 FADC:<br>
jab(4f) follow up leaves no room for reversals<br>
close strong(5f) leaves room for reversals, tested many times to see if it was just me mistiming it.<br>
short rollkicks(5f) leaves no room for reversals.<br>
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If this is true, this is very useful information. That means the window of opportunity for an opponent to mash out of a Fierce Slash 2 FADC command throw is incredibly small(4 frames), I’ve been using this a lot as it throws people off guard and I think I’ve only been crouch teched out of it a handful of times, I just never knew the advantage before.
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/37079/Julpero">Julpero</a> said:</div><div class=“QuoteText”>snip<br>
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3 days later and I feel the need to reply to what you last said for some reason, you probably didn’t block enough in your recording, super animations take hella long.<div><br></div><div>Also, what the hell is this new quoting system.</div>
How does yang deal with with jumps that are unsafe but are crossups? On standard shotos for example, they have c.hp that anti-airs directly above them. It seems that when i’m playing yang, I have a hard time with people that just directly jumps over me. How do you guys handle this? When far.mk and lk.dp will whiff? Do you dash forward? command dash? I tried cl.mk but it seems unreliable and gets stuffed quite often. Thanks for the help
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/61736/Jason%20Hu">Jason Hu</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>How does yang deal with with jumps that are unsafe but are crossups? On standard shotos for example, they have c.hp that anti-airs directly above them. It seems that when i’m playing yang, I have a hard time with people that just directly jumps over me. How do you guys handle this? When far.mk and lk.dp will whiff? Do you dash forward? command dash? I tried cl.mk but it seems unreliable and gets stuffed quite often. Thanks for the help</div>
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I usually either dash, focus dash or ex teleport if I need to get out of corner. If I manage to react quickly enough I’ll do jump back light kick, hard punch or hard kick.