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What? So spin kick is safe?
Yes and no, it’s safe from the right distance and even at the wrong distance it’s hard to punish. At least, that’s what people seem to be saying.
I don’t think it’s the vortex itself that she has to worry about. I think any character with as much or more mobility than her will be an issue for her, Ibuki being one. I also think Viper will be rough for her too. Viper can dish out a crap ton of damage very fast and is quite mobile. Not to mention Viper has a crap ton of fakes to bait Juri into very unsafe supers (of which she has a lot of it seems). Not to mention Vipers attack angles are the only ones more wonky than Juri’s imo.
Her counter backdash will be punished by super jump follow ups, her counter up dash I am only speculating won’t be in range to hit a SJC, and her forward dash just puts them way on the other side of the screen and back to neutral.
I think boxer could also give her a lot of trouble.
Makoto’ll kill her. Maybe. I have no clue really, but the potential in there to some degree, especially now that Kara Karakusa is back.
I don’t think grapplers will be a problem for Juri. She has a good keep out game, and even if they do get in she has a ton of moves like close HP, her overhead and pinwheel that elevate her off the ground to avoid the grab attempts.
Except calling her a grappler is like calling Balrog a grappler. Yeah, she has that awsome comand grab, and probably the 2nd largest grab range with it out of anyone other than oiled up Hakan, but her nature is 100 percent in pressure in rushdown, as its always been, her comand grab only being one tool of the trade.
But, looking at it, with Makoto’s lack of anti-air options, that will probably be what keeps the matchup even. Makoto can easily get past any fireball games with only 1 bar and begin a painful combo on us, but her options against our aerial game are incredibly limited, and against Juri, that’s a pretty big deal. Though, her dash might over come that weakness, as she pursuits us as we fall and hits us with her ultra punch, which DOES hit and fully connect on aerial opponents btw, as shown in a recent Ibuki versus Makoto thread.
Makoto’s footsies are also amazing in SSF4, as they gave her the ability to do so since she no longer has the parry to rely on.
Did I mention that I’m now split between Makoto and Juri?
Mak doesn’t have footsies. But I agree that Juri will be fine vs grapplers even Mak, Bison seems really tough. It’s wierd though I don’t really see her getting torn apart by any characters yet which is good, also may change, but she feels well rounded enogh to deal with anyone
Balrog’s not even close to a grappler though. Yes I know she’s not completely grappler oriented, but you get my point in that I don’t believe Karakusa will be dangerous for Juri. I don’t know how good her tools were in 3S, but they’re not as effective as I’ve heard.
I’m not completely sure which move you were talking about for her to get in with 1 bar. EX Hayate? I’m pretty sure that doesn’t go through fireballs, EX karakusa she’d have to already be in, etc. etc. Are you saying you think she’ll be able to dash ultra our dive kicks? That seems a little crazy to me.
That’s based on 2 things, and 2 things only
- No Kara Karakusa.
This was proven wrong. Its back, the Mak is back.
- She’s all based on baiting paries and now, can’t punish focus attacks.
This also isn’t true. Some of her normals have had their speed from 3S increased by at least 3 times as much to give them more use this time around, so she now can play the footsie game and doesn’t have to rely on Kara Karakusa as much. She can also Kara cancel her armor breaking chop move to give it more range, thus punishing focus attacks.
This is what I originally heard. however, now that Kara Karakua is back, she can Karakusa with the EX, which has armor.
There are several videos that I don’t have access to at the moment of showing how fast her ultra is. A former top Makoto in the videos got most of his ultras by going DASH-DASH-ULTRA, and almost all of the attempts at escape were shut down by the speed of this ultra.
kara karakusa is so hard it’s impractical, trust me
Yeah it was kinda hard even back in 3S. Let alone with SSF4’s system it will be potentially as Magus said Impractical.
I had to slap myself in the face then check the thread title to confirm I was indeed in the Juri thread, and not the mak one. It’s funny though since the past few posts answered some questions I had for mak.
You mean you wouldn’t throw it out outside of combos? Honestly, I don’t know why people are so surprised its not safe. I would like the LK one to be as safe as Dic’s LK Scissor Kick, but we can’t have everything. I don’t really see why the heavier versions should be safe though. Now, if your saying it has too many activation frames, making it too stuffable, then that’s a bit different.
It seems like a waste to throw a random Ex Pinwheel if you’re not sure it’s going to hit. That’s a lot of damage thrown away.
Whats the frame data for it looking like?
I tried collecting some frame data on it out of boredom. I could very well be wrong, but I think it’s roughly -16 on block and has a 7 frame startup. Again, out of boredom I decided also to check how fast her c.MK came out, and that has a 6 frame startup.
I’m pretty sure I’m on point with the startup, not completely sure about how bad it is on block, but considering Juri couldn’t punish it with her overhead, and most overheads in SF4 had roughly a 14-20 frame startup, I think I’m somewhat accurate.
I really don’t see how it being difficult to execute can warrant it being impractical… It’s one more [solid] option she has post Hayate on hit.
But seriously, I can’t see Makoto having a huge advantage (if any at all) against Juri. Juri has tools to keep Makoto away and options when Makoto closes in on her. Dudley on the other hand… seems like will give Juri a very hard time.
-16 sounds harsh. If it is indeed anywhere near that, then it definitely would not be safe at any distance.
Yeah -16 is pretty harsh. Keep in mind though, that I’ve never recorded frame data before so I very well could be wrong. I don’t think it’s any worse than -16 though.
It’s not all bad though, I believe she can FADC the first two hits of it so if we think it’s gonna get blocked that’s an option. The downside to this though is that since it’s only the first two hits, it’d be near impossible to confirm if you actually hit the opponent or not before FADCing. That being said, the ability to FADC it is much better than not having the option at all.