you and me, Final Fight, ft10
Isn’t “Up” a button… ?
Technically yeah, but people tend to associate directions differently, especially on an arcade stick or analog where you aren’t pressing your finger downward to do that action. Example: the hitbox turns jump into a “button” instead of a direction for most traditional style fighting games.
The hitbox just changes the way you have to press those buttons to a way that’s more ergonomic to some people, but it doesn’t change their inherent nature.
Putting the jump on another button than the up arrow would make sense if the up arrow was used for some other function, or if it made some inputs feel generally more natural. But I’m not seeing how, in more general sense, that changes anything except for player’s preferences.
That’s all well and good for DFO, but it doesn’t mean that the jump button in that game allows for more flashy combos than others just because it’s there.
Yeah, kinda like “smash bros is a fighting game”. Having the jump button is necessary because of the movement, but it also eases up on inputs since you can have 20 ‘specials’. you can only have so many quarter circle motions and directional inputs, having another button to handle aerial specials takes a load off. Anyways dfo shouldnt be compared to fighting games anyways.
Except that DFO is by design, already part of a different genre (beat 'em up) whereas Smash is something people are still arguing over to this day. And, in light of the discussion, DFO doesn’t really add anything considering that it’s invoking tropes and mechanics from a different genre - in fact, I believe that some of those inputs you’ve mentioned have have been used in other beat 'em ups in the 90s.
o_o without up to jump, options while dashing and shielding are further gimped.
If up didn’t jump, you would no longer be able to up-smash or up-B out of shield or a dash. The jump startup immediately cancels both of those (letting go of shield normally results in a long animation, stupid, I know) and you can cancel the jump startup with an attack that requires a hard (smash) Up input. In Melee, jumping and canceling into a grab allowed you use the standing grab instead of the slower dashing grab canceling the dash state with a jump. It’s still possible to all these things with the jump button, but without up-to-jump, there would be no reason to allow up-attacks to cancel out of the startup – the only reason it’s that way is to deal with the input overlap, while still having intuitive and lenient inputs for up-attacks. Of course, this wouldn’t be necessary if dashing and shielding horribly limit options so much.
The best fix would be to remove up-to-jump, allow instant recovery from letting go of shield (like every fighting game), and completely change the dashing mechanic.
I’ve always hated the block button in MK, but I think a jump button could work if done properly. In fact, I’ve thought about this concept many times for a fighting game I’d like to make someday. Making jump, and throw, a button could potentially really open up the options in the game while keeping things simple execution wise.
No because DFO is not a 2D game, it’s a 3D game and the directions up, down, left, and right are used for spacing/positioning.
If you notice, the ranger moves down during his windmill so he could line up on the x-axis so his next attacks would connect:
It’s hard to tell but she’s not just moving left and right while jumping but also positioning herself up and down to avoid those thunderbolts (also yes, that’s air dashing and air dash cancel + flight + floating like Storm’s hold up in MvC2 but in DFO it’s hold jump + double jump in that combo, all that stuff from the versus games):
You’re missing the point, DFO has a jump button because it needs one, Vestax implied the existence of the jump button made for more combo opportunities through the use of jump cancelling, something that many up-to-jump games have.
Besides, in any case, DFO is more of a beat 'em up than a straight up fighting game in the first place.
You’re quite a boring troll.
Anyway, I wouldn’t call DFO a beat 'em up nor a fighting game, if you want to believe wiki calling it a beat 'em up then feel free to read the rest of the garbage it posted on the subject 
and other sites are calling it an MMORPG. From my experience, it’s a mix between MMORPG, beat 'em up, and fighting game, though pre-class advancement while you don’t have access to most of your skills it does feel like a beat 'em up. Characters are unique and play differently. Elementalist for example feels like I’m playing D2 or another RPG while Monk feels like I’m playing SF2 Boxer or 3rd Strike Dudley. It may not be a fighting game like SF2 or MvC2 but I find its PvP to be more of a fighting game than SF4 or MvC3.
I don’t think that was what he implied but what he used as an example. You do have more moves because you have an extra button, which is used for moves such as down+jump for backstep and down, down+jump for fighter crouch as some examples. Similarly, a fighting game without a jump button can add an extra button to use to create a new combination of inputs.
Theoretically, you have two input registers, up direction and a button. You can define your up to be jump or your button to be jump. In a 2D game, most people want the character motion to mimic the directional input, so the up direction would correspond to a jump. There are cases where people make arguments to have a jump button to make inputs such as standing 720 easier, but it would remove having that complete motion control of the character by use of the directional inputs alone in the 2D plane. For a true 3D game, the directional input can map to the standing 2D plane while an extra button is needed to jump. Some arcades back in the day had a joystick where aside from just moving it to move your character, you could also turn it for direction of fire while moving simultaneously in a non-dependent direction and a button on top of the joystick to jump. Personally, I found this control scheme kind of discouraging when I was tired and just wanted something simple to relax.
Actually, he very explicitly stated that you can use jump as a cancel just because of having a jump button.
Only in those annoying Sony pads and on keyboards. Also, there are these controllers with inappropriate names which actually denote in-game 2D hit-detection schemes. Everywhere else, the input is either attached to a joystick or a directional pad. Also, any button can be help together with another button or joystick direction. This is not true for most joystick directions in most actual joysticks, which make it impossible for you to hold different directions on the same axis.
Edit: jump buttons could work. SF2 used the joystick cos there were already lots of buttons, and ↑, 
and 
were not being used. Nowadays, it sounds obvious, but it was quite innovative for the ones who played it when it was released.
Which ones? All versions of the PS controller from the PS1’s pre-dual analog pad up to the Dual Shock 3, as well as every PSP version and the Vita, all of these have a single D-Pad that is designed as to look like they are separate “buttons” due to not wanting to deal with Nintendo saying they stole their D-Pad design. Which stems from their falling out over that joint project they were gonna do before the N64.
Do you think so? I recall a number of “unofficial” pads with that same kind of d-pad, except they sucked in actual play for whatever reason. The ones on actual N64s also sucked, BTW.
Yeah, the d-pad was a single piece, but that is what I am referring to. I never had one, so I am talking about the default controller that would come with the console. The thing was unplayable, coming from SNES and Genesis. To this day, there are still people around here who wrap their hands in their shirts in order to deal with that kind of pad. But you are right, they are not really separated buttons. I hope Papercut does not find it that I was wrong for once.
a jump button in a 3d fighter is almost a necessity.
but wether its 2d or 3d, one thing is for sure, a crouch button is never ever ever, a necessity.
if you want to make players feel frustrated and hate your developed game…install a crouch button.
i’m looking straight at you, YuYuHakusho dark tournament.