thanx you BUDDHA u couldnt have said it any better.
Man… No offense, but when you type like that it makes my head hurt.
I think I get what you’re trying to say, though… I think…
umm can u tell me WHERE you get that quote me sayin “niggaz in da crib” because i honestly dont even remember me sayin sumthing like dat on this site & i dont write the word ( niggaz ) like dat , i write it like this -->nikkas<–
haha jay…all he did was quote you then changed the text in there lol
i agree…
and EL… you suck!
that is all
I have fufilled my troll for this thread
times like this that i wish i had lived in the us.
mask terror and vegaman,i got to ask both of you guys something…why would you want to hold a down back charge at sweeping distance from sagat?you guys arent playing balrog,right?seriously
just think about it,by itself what possible special of vega could possibly limit sagat from doing what he wants?
does he have a headbutt like move that i dont know about?where is your back and forth bait walking?
where are your cosmic heels?kara throws?
so this is how the matchup pans out:in this version of the game,a good sagat player holds more of an advantage by holding off claw away from him using his shots compared to going in all out.make no mistake,going in on an all out balls to the wall offensive mode is also going to yield the sagat player good results,but i personally found out that its a lot more harder to face sagats who play a keep away/zoning game.
as a vega player you need to get THAT KNOCKDOWN.
so yeah,ideally as a vega player you should find your way through sagats fireball game to a position right outside of his sweeping distance.now at this point,depending on how the sagat plays,you should be using a combination of crmps,stmks and stlks to see how the sagat reacts to you pressing buttons.if he starts to do specials and presses a lot of buttons in general,make sure that your button presses are passive enough to block what he does(and punish).once you condition him not to press any buttons,you should start walking to and fro at his sweep range and pressure him with your crlp kara throw game.once you get in his head with your kara throws,the sagat player would start throwing out crlks(tech throw) which can inturn be punished by your comic heel.
so in short its critical that you learn how to walk back and forth as a vega player,not just against sagat,but against all of the cast in general.there are two stages,initially you should be walking in and out of the opponents poke range and punish whatever he whiffs,then once your opponet gets passive(you can say that your opponent has become passive once he starts to walk back or starts throwing crlks),youve got to move further and start walking in and out of your kara throw range and play your kara throw/cosmic heel mindgame.(this is the reason why i feel vega has a huge advantage against characters who have an ideal poke range that is within or just outside of vega’s kara throw range.)
so as explained above, your objective should revolve around knocking him down with either a scarlett terror(preferably from a cosmic heel) or scoring an untechable knockdown with an izuna.
from there you can start pressuring him with your loop,safe jumps or other shenanigans such as your usual corpse hop routines,crossup fbas etc.
so that in general is the basic theory of how this matchup should be played.
now in this matchup,unlike a character like guile,sagat completely looses to vega in the air and so its unecessary to fish for an aa scarlet terror during a ground game(another reason why you dont need to hold a down back charge).so you could just throw him out of his jump ins or use your jump mps,neutral jump hks to stuff him out.unlike the previous game,sagat cannot force vega to back dash or to block by using his now crappy jump mp and thus you can feel free to counter his deep jump in mp with your own jump back fierce/mp etc(dont think a throw would work).
so bottom line,what im trying to say is that unless you’ve conditioned the sagat player before,you should work on spending a lot more time outside of his sweep range,baiting stuff before finally working your way inside of him with your kara throws and cosmic heels.recently i found out that spending a lot more time on an unknown player’s poke range before moving in has reduced the rate of me getting randomed out by shotos in tournaments.
now the loop:
the loop on him works like gold,let me give you a hint,if he’s dping you out of it,then you’re not timing it right.you should do it in a way such that you go across his head from the wall of your side and grab him from the back before he says “TI—”.the timing on the loop is not perfectly meaty,and thus he can escape with a jump back special,if he starts to do that,you should start doing the loop meaty which inturn can be beaten out by a TU.so you see the guessing game here?dont do the loop unless you’re in a comfortable position hp wise and most importantly dont stretch your luck for more than 3 reps.
just go into training mode,put the cpu on very hard and keep izunaing the damn thing over and over anywhere on the screen without failing even once.(I say this because the cpu is too dum to jump back and would alternate between the various version of tus.)if you can do that,you’re good to go in a real match.
besides that its really difficult to explain the actual timing of the loop…erm…one thing,just after your previous izuna completes,give a slight pause of 2 frames after vega’s hop before doing your next wall dive,and after doing the dive hold down on the forward button only after a milli second.all in all i would say that you’ve got an error window of around 3 frames to do the loop on sagat,which is pretty liberal i would say.
so emblem lord this is what i think about how vega should play the matchup,feel free to criticize.
I swear I have a homie that does what assassin does he even do it and his commentary while in tourneys. It just sounds like dude wants to be on your vids but hes just mad that you’re not doing it for xbl so hes throwing a temper tantrum.
you mad?
Lax got it right for the most part. The Claws threat level is in baiting. If you just crouch there I’m either gonna just gonna crouch in your face because you aren’t doing anything to me and I stand to gain much more from just waiting then you do. Or I’ll jump back. Claw has to get a bit more proactive. As far as pokes go Cosmic heel, Slide, and st.mk are golden. His cr.mp is food for gats st.mk for the most part. I can’t recommend it much except as a quick punish for whiffs and such. Loop is imperative for Claw to win this match, but like you said if Claw pushes it he will get TUed sooner or later and when he does he’s probably going to die. So a few reps is best IMO just as you said. Plus Claw has tons of wake-up shenanigans anyways. He doesn’t need the loop exclusively. Instant overhead on Sagat is risky. He can kara TU that on hit I believe so I would say omit that from your game or only use it to kill.
BTW SOMETIMES sitting on charge outside his poke range can be a valid strategy since you can lp rcf for chip or do cr.mp xx rcf for pressure. Just don’t always do that. But for the most part footsies and conditioning combined with solid wake-up mix-ups are the keys to victory for Vega.
you know what,you are the only sagat player i know who seems to use the stmk effectively.i saw your matches against the ibukis and got curious,went to the training room and found out that it beats out a surprising number of options.I wonder why the move is so underutilized.
been playing some sagat lately cause my friend picked him up. Such a fun character, I’m really a fan of that J. Fierce. Fun playing my Ryu against him. Fireball wars are epic.
For the record, I think Gat’s st. MK is a situational counter poke. I’m still just going to bait that out and chip away with c. mp all day. I’m really not a fan of st. mk at all because at least if you whiff a c. mp you’re not going to get punished if someone jumps in, you’re just forced to block. Bad situation, yeah, but it’s desirable over eating the jump in BnB. Plus, c. mp has way better frame data all around. I notice a lot of Gat’s pokes are just counter hit c. mp or c. mk into EX fireballs or something like that, just to get the distance and set that ground game up with the tiger knee spacing. Honestly the thing I am least scared of is any notion of Sagat pokes, I’m just going to easily bait them w/ walk speed and etc all day. I think Gat has to capitalize on any hesitation and start pressuring with fireballs. they’re pretty much your footsies, otherwise you create distance or start locking down with a tiger knee. I think the pokes have a lot less to do with it, and again I think st. mk is situational. Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: looking at some frame data, st. MK by Sagat has 9 frame start up which is kinda slow, but recovers fast. It’s good to get people to run into it but again you have to really be wary of using it from outside Vega’s range. I snipe that shit with my sweep all day.
Also apparently Vega st. mk is barely slower than c.mp, so i dunno what I’m talking about. I think it’s the standing hitbox, I guess? Regardless I don’t seem to have much luck with it. I’m much more comfortable spamming c. mk and c. mk, not to mention st. lk and c. jab.
Tiger Shot is a great poke, but it ain’t footsies. Sagat has to commit to that shit. He really doesn’t commit at all to st.mk because recovery is wtffast. Vega has it better punishing it due to his range but in any other match shit is almost free and makes niggas twitch.
Edit: Of course it’s fun playing Ryu vs Gat. Ryu eats him alive.
i didnt even POST that ( sad face ) so idk where u commin from wit ( if im mad ) FOR WHAT I SHOULD BE MAD ABOUT ?
Temper Tantrum ? pftt plz homeboy u must not read to well about what im tryin to say im not gonna explain myself again its a WASTE OF TIME & i dont need to be on his vids i GOT MY OWN VIDS on my youtube channel/dioffre827
& i cant believe you put my name in your mouth & u by far the worst Vega player of da 2 that Emberlord played just by watching vids of u playin on youtube lmfao. Please dont mention my name again thank you
i don’t think i’ve played EL in months. fighting EL most of the time i’m not holding db to charge but to simply wait for an opportunity to make a move. EL isnt your typical sagat player. btw none of my matches with el are online so iono how you’re judging me. here’s my thing. my footsies game is ass. most of the shit i win on falls under 1 or more of 3 categories. shenanagins, solid blocking, randomness. when it comes to solid fundamentals of footsies… i have some but it’s limited. part of the reason for this is that i cannot go into training mode and execute every possible situiation that i can put myself in, something i’m not able to do. that leaves the experience gathering to playing very good people. something psn lacks a lot of. I go to tourneys but i’m not usually playing to learn in tourneys. I’m playing to win. casuals, online, and maybe some local or online tourneys i’ll play to learn but majority of the time i play to win. finding someone good that will play you over and over is pretty hard to find. so those trial periods when i could learn in situitations are few and far between, which shits on my growth as a player. so that’s why sometimes i just hold db and OST. i’m waiting for a situiation where i can either escape or counterattack, and EL’s good at shutting that down. If i’m not in the corner i’m trying to stay that way, so i take to the air often. might not be smart but i dont possess the knowledge currently to make other decisions…
btw most of my experience vs el is in vanilla… i think i’ve done 1 or 2 sets with el in super.
Not to shit on PSN but I don’t have any problems with finding good players willing to spar/practice against on XBL. 
Gasp!
Blast from the past.
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lol i stand corrected. i did both a search on youtube for my name and looked thru mine and el’s playlist and didnt see those
TBH idk, guess not playing for about 2months or so i loss a bit of knowledge of what to and what not to do in some match ups… I know that’s not the best i can do but o’well i m**ked up simple as that… =\
Ok, so I really wanted to plya Rugal before I wrapped this up, but he’s going through sum stuff right now. So I’ll give this a couple of more days. If anyone wants to have their stuff put up shoot me an invite or post. There is maybe one more Claw player on PSN that I wanna play myself, but if anyone wants to do it or go another round if I played you already then holla at me.