Joo's MvC2 Combo DVD. Coming Very Soon

[Magnetro]

[media=youtube]vOTnVXnpbtc[/media]

Explanation video for the 999 Hit combo shown in Meikyousisui Volume 10 like 4 years ago.

[MegamanDS]

cool

[nick2193]

do you know where I can find the original video of that combo, unedited?

Edit: never mind I found it! -

question: how is it possible to control two characters at once? I know its probably not practical but i’d like to know anyway.

[jimmy1200]

random suki shit last night online with bbhood. was playing someone and i super jumped and started mashing hk like the drunk tard i was, and i got 3 of them to come out. i was excited. true story

[Magnetro]

So I have to revise about 50 more combos then finish up the Common Technique videos and then itll be up to joo to put the dvd together.

Might be a 8.5GB DL

[MegamanDS]

So I have to revise about 50 more combos then finish up the Common Technique videos and then itll be up to joo to put the dvd together.

Might be a 8.5GB DL

you never replied to my text about frame info.

also, 8.5gb is pretty good size for DVD. I would like a hard copy signed by you 2 instead of a download.

[Magnetro]

Sorry. Only for combovideo makers.

[System_1]

I just watched the vid and all I have to say is : Oh MFG, I do apreciate many things about Joo’s work, since he was making Meikyoisisui vids along with the other guys he began to show us his abilities as a combomaker, I’m not a combomaker but I think that it’s hard to think about the posibilities that a character has to make a combo,can you imagine how difficult is to create a totaly different new combo?,using some bugs, glitches and combining all of them to make this BEAUTY vid, man, he must be making or imagining combos even when he is sleeping :lol: I also like magnetro’s combovids, always pushing the chars to the limit, many of you think that this combos aren’t practical in real marches, maybe they aren’t, but it doesn’t mean they are bad,I’d like to have their imagination to at least try to make one of them, congratulations Joo and Magnetro, keep on surprising us with your amazing combos

[Magnetro]

So in order to keep Zach’s page from exploding, I think I’ll do a tiering for release. This way Zach’s page won’t get hit up all at once. Maybe a week wait between tiers. So far it’s looking like it’ll be:

1st) ComboVideo People (select few)
2nd) People who PM me on SRK. (Might be less than 100)
3rd) Premium Members (don’t really want to do this one, but it’s just another tier i guess)
4th) Regular SRK (it’ll be posted in FGD/Marvel2 Subforums/VideoGallery)
5th) Preppy’s Page (Front Page)
6th) CapcomUnity/SRK Front page (this will be the bulk of the hits)
7th MMDS.

[eczangief]

fixed

So in order to keep Zach’s page from exploding, I think I’ll do a tiering for release. This way Zach’s page won’t get hit up all at once. Maybe a week wait between tiers. So far it’s looking like it’ll be:

1st) ComboVideo People (select few)
2nd) People who PM me on SRK. (Might be less than 100)
3rd) Premium Members (don’t really want to do this one, but it’s just another tier i guess)
4th) Regular SRK (it’ll be posted in FGD/Marvel2 Subforums/VideoGallery)
5th) Preppy’s Page (Front Page)
6th) CapcomUnity/SRK Front page (this will be the bulk of the hits)
7th) GameFaqs
8th) MMDS.

[MegamanDS]

So in order to keep Zach’s page from exploding, I think I’ll do a tiering for release. This way Zach’s page won’t get hit up all at once. Maybe a week wait between tiers. So far it’s looking like it’ll be:

1st) ComboVideo People (select few)
2nd) People who PM me on SRK. (Might be less than 100)
3rd) Premium Members (don’t really want to do this one, but it’s just another tier i guess)
4th) Regular SRK (it’ll be posted in FGD/Marvel2 Subforums/VideoGallery)
5th) Preppy’s Page (Front Page)
6th) CapcomUnity/SRK Front page (this will be the bulk of the hits)
7th MMDS.

what you don’t know is that I will probably have it before you.

[Magnetro]

fixed

I love how you still kept and fixed the list to include MMDS in last place.

MMDS>That makes perfect probably sense.

[MegamanDS]

As a sociology major, the reason he kept MMDS last on that last is to not disrupt the order of your joke. He probably did not understand what MMDS was so as a result, he left it last and added his own twist. I guarantee you he did not do it intentionally to leave MMDS last on the list. He still does not know what MMDS is.

This is coming from a very smart poster.

[Magnetro]

Keep this in mind

After all the work that he and I have put into these extra videos for his DVD, I felt that it was appropriate to repost this. Translated by NKI.

It is no exaggeration to say that I put all of my time and my life into this video.
It contains not just combos, but also situational clips.

I can’t speak for him personally, but I know that he started his project in late 2002. The combos in the DVD are dated, so when you watch combos from 2002-2003, think about the American side of combovideos during that time. It’s amazing how ahead of everyone he has always been. There will probably be comments by joo at the end of some of the combos he is most proud of.

I think there is a large gap in knowledge between combo video makers and your average players.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the patience to explain it all to everyone. LOL.
Without that kind of patience, it’s really difficult to show just how amazing/complex some this stuff is.
There aren’t a lot of Marvel out there players anyway,
so this video is basically just for my own amusement.

He’s right about the large gap in knowledge, fortunately the DVD will have explanation videos for his combos. Even though he’s also right about there not being many Marvel2 players out there, I felt that it was right to make these videos for him because of the amount of time he put into his DVD. I also felt bad that he WANTED some kind of graph or something to show how complicated his combos are, but didn’t have the patience or time. Although after all this work, I’m pretty sure his biggest problem is time, and not patience.

You can’t tell by watching the video, but programming the macros took a considerable amount of work.
It’s really hard to see, but over half of this video uses macros.
When programming macros, if A links to B, and B links to C, you’re not limited to just link A to B to C.

Yeah. This is probably going to have to be covered in a separate video. It’s really difficult to show that once you find something special, it’s not something exclusive. Imagine copy-pasting macro commands in MvC2. Chunks and pieces of combos getting copied and pasted all over the place. The thing is though, you can’t just copy-paste parts and have them work.

For example, the a lot of the combos from Meikyousisui Volume 11 are combos from his DVD, except that they’re heavily truncated. He took some of the pieces from his DVD combo and copy-pasted them into a new combo for Meik11. There is a challenging element in doing that though, if you want to paste “A” and have it link into “C” while avoiding “B” (“B” being DVD combo chunk), you’ll have to re-program a part “B” for “A” and “C”.

There’s a lot of potential with stuff that requires one-frame links.
From the beginning of a combo to the end, there might be 10 one-frame links.
It’s a miracle that these combos exist. They are miracle combos.

What he means by this: there is a lot of combo-extending possibilities using 1-frame links. 1-Frame links allow the combo to be extended in a significant manner that leads up into another chunk. There are certain situations where you can cross the dummy up while hitting him from the same side. Usually these are resets, but often times there are 1-frame links to allow the “cross-up” to combo. Another example is the 1-Frame OTG, some characters (Sonson/Ruby come to mind) can really extend their combos by using 1-Frame OTGs. There is all sorts of stuff in the DVD that is 1-Frame only.

And they are done not in training mode, and not with a Game Shark using full health, but just in regular old Vs. mode starting with full health. They are totally complete.

I think that he’s very proud of the fact that he’s come full-circle with his combos. There are only like 3 or 4 Training Mode-Only combos in the DVD. The rest are combos that can be done in regular versus mode (although some have handicap-1 because they would kill the dummy before the combo finishes). It’s a big deal for combo-video people to do combos in versus mode because they often don’t work 100% of the time. So it’s a sense of complete accomplishment.

Thanks to the fact that we now have a way to guarantee a macro will
work 100% of the time. LOL. This video would have been impossible
without that technique

Yeah, the 100% technique makes recording combos in versus mode possible. I’ll probably make a short video to demonstrate the average combo-programming-recording sequence that he and I have. It’s really amazing how much dedication it takes when you find something and you have no way of assuring it will work 100%. I think that if he had known about the 100% technique before embarking on his DVD project, he would have finished it in 2 or 3 years instead of 5 or 6.

I really wish I could show in the video just how much research and trial-and-error is required in the process of creating combos.
There are combos that took me 3 months of trial-and-error to get right.
I especially want to show how much persistence it took to get some of the FSD combos.

Yes. I want to throw in some videos to demonstrate how hard it was to find some of the things he found. In short, the way he comes up with things is: find all the possible data to find in MvC2, look at it everyday and think of possible uses. There is very little he left out in the DVD. Each character has a combo to demonstrate their special abilities. Certain combo-heavy characters like Cyclops have many combos while others (Aming) have one, but it has everything interesting.

If we were to make a video of how we find things, it would really give everyone a better idea of how hard it is to “keep at it” when you find something and want to develop it into a combo. Again, in general it goes like:

*Think of all the possible options and combinations and moves a character has.

• Find frame data for absolutely everything.

• Systematically archive and organize the data so that it can be referenced in the future.

• Observe the data until something sticks out. Sometimes ideas come right away, and other times it takes a lot of thinking or they just happen to spontaneously pop up. HOWEVER, since the game has been out this long, coming up with combos has become ridiculously hard because of the ceiling joo has created. So thinking and looking at the data is the only way to make technical combos.

• Start programming everything in individual segments. If you have 5 ideas that you want to include in ONE COMBO, you’ll have to develop them into something so that you can piece them together (A B C D E). Please be aware that it is difficult to do all the previous steps. Amounting everything is just half of the process, putting everything together takes a lot of time because you have to program and test everything frame-by-frame. It is REALLY hard to show how much perseverance it takes to do this stuff (I can’t go more than 4 sentences without saying that. Heh).

*Once each idea is developed and can link into another, you start a new combo with everything in it. This is also very time consuming. You have to test if everything is piecing together. Often times it does, but when something doesn’t work out, it’s hard to find the spot that is messing the combo up. Again, without the 100% technique, all these things take a really long time.

• Capturing the combo. This used to take hours and sometimes days because the probability of a combo working the way it was supposed to is very high. The 100% technique insures that something that took MONTHS to plan out will work on the very first try. Unless you’ve programmed combos like this, you’re not going to appreciate it. My 3 character combo from VA took 5 days (about 16 hours per day ((i got very little sleep), capturing it took 2 whole days because of the bug required and because of the probability of it working. With the 100% technique it will work on the first try so it will only take 15 minutes for days of work to be captured.

So that’s the GENERAL process. There are a lot of details that can only be showed on video. There are 56 characters. Really elastic but controlled and logical engine. Possibility of 5-6 characters on-screen at once. Air Combos. All sorts of links. When you think about all the elements in MvC2, the DVD will be very astonishing. He went out of his way to make it complete in every way possible.

Finally,

If I had to live my life over again, I’d probably make a video to show it all.

Yeah that line made me feel bad for him, so that is why I’m doing these videos. Knowing all the conditions that made doing combos hard etc. I just wanted to make his DVD as good as it can be.

So yeah, DVD MIGHT be done in December. Big MIGHT. So far we have WELL over 1000 title cards. ATM, I’m starting revision # 3 of the 130 combos and the 8 common technique videos totaling ~60 minutes. It’s really interesting what the normal working environment for us is.

We have about 12 excel sheets for Combos and Common Technique Videos. The excel sheets have the English and Japanese versions of the title cards in Premiere as well as comments and change dates. The routine is, I finish a pass --> he checks it and adds stuff --> I do another pass and send it back --> he OKs it.

About 6 Adobe Premiere Projects

An FTP account (thank you so much Zach) with like 80gbs of content (combos/explanation clip content/the excel sheets we upload/other non-dvd stuff that he might release after his DVD/bugs/CommonTechnique content/BGMS/more stuff)

Sometimes a translator comes in to help us.

Yeesh. I can’t help but think of all the new people who have absolutely no idea about any of this stuff. I hope all of you read this. Projects like this are more appreciated when you know what was put into them.

Like I told joo, “No one will ever understand these combos like you do, even me. This is because only you lived with yourself while you were researching and programming every single frame in your DVD. You will always have those memories with you and those can’t be put in explanation videos”

So the best thing is just to absorb as much as you can when it comes out.

[xxphilopiaxx]

Dude, I am so excited.

[System_1]

*Think of all the possible options and combinations and moves a character has.

• Find frame data for absolutely everything.

• Systematically archive and organize the data so that it can be referenced in the future.

.

That’s exactly what I meant when I said : it’s hard to think about the posibilities that a character has to make a combo,can you imagine how difficult is to create a totaly different new combo?. I’m totally thankful with Joo for doing this DVD, although he decides not to show it to “regular players”, it’s true that many guys out there are not gonna apreciate his effort,but, some others that know this game will enjoy a lot, Magnetro, maybe you don’t need to explains us every Joo’s feeling, of course that is very difficult to make this combos, counting frames and things like those,I repeat, I’m not a combomaker, but you don’t need to be one of them to realize how much dedication, time and patience you must have to first think about the combo and then make it work…
I’ll tell you one story, I have a friend who got angry cause while he was playing marvel and trying to make a combo other guy told him : Forget it man, you’ll never perform that combo,besides, it’s only a game… When he heard last part he got upset and told him: You never say “it’s only a game” cause it’s not… that guy didn’t undestand that for us (real mvc2 players) it’s not only a simple game, it’s a passion, I think Joo feels like him, for him is a passion to make his DVD, the proof is that this took him many years,and he wants it to be as good as possible, well, that’s my opinion.

[Magnetro]

Cross Posted from the Other Thread

Good read! I was just wondering, if you had all this frame data and just knowledge you’ve accumulated from experience about what links and what doesn’t, wouldn’t it be possible to take all that information and create a program that would spit out lists of “possible” combos? Not saying that they would all work but you would be able to generate “possible” combos on a mass scale as opposed to just thinking about it. Might even be able to generate stuff that you wouldn’t have thought of. Again I’m not a combo maker so I don’t know what it’s like to create a combo that “works” and how it relates to hard game data and situational circumstances. But just a thought.

Sort of. Once you have the frame data you need to calculate for hitstop and all these other variables that would make the combo not work. It’s hard enough to come up with combos when you know the data.

There are also the combos that mathematically would work, but in order for them to work, you’ll have to do magic with positioning. The Cyclops vs Roll combo in Meikyousisui11 is a REALLY good example of position manipulation. Also, the Captain America FSD from DVDPreview.avi–the SJ.8HK was done early and far away so that he could move forward and hit with it late. He also did the Sj.8HK off the MK which moves the character downward, so if Captain America did the whole air combo soon after jumping, he wouldn’t have fast velocity that you get when you reach your apex and fall to move him down to ALLOW his 8HK to connect once he edged left. It’s really really remarkable when you see it explained.

Hey young tro, did he document how long it took to complete each combo?
If I were y’all I’d add in a footnote at the end of each combo that states how long it took.

Or is that portion of the explanations already complete?

Yeah, that’s what I was planning on doing with some of the combos. He told me the Cyclops56 (off-screen) combo took him a whole month or so during the summer of 2003.

The FSD combos (most likely the Scroll-FSD ones) took a long time because there are 4 important variables that all have to work out correctly in order for the combo to work.

*FS-Dash speed and duration & attack that is being used to follow up.

*Dummy Positioning before the combo

*Dummy positioning after the combo

*Main character’s position before the combo.

If any of those are off by one frame the Scroll-FSD will not work. Of course, you also have to know how long the dummy is going to be on the ground for. That can be found by mining frame data. So the way joo does it the most logical way when you think about it. Try each and every single possible variable. This could mean over one thousand numbers to try…on a combo that doesn’t work right 100% of the time. So lets say 2500 tries go in for a combo that requires 1000 variables to be tested. Joo has about 30 excel sheets with Combos and Data. Almost each excel sheet has about 15 sheets that are filled out with all kinds of data for each character. So 56 rows and 56 columns per sheet. Sometimes much more.

P.S. I didn’t see you mention much on positioning of the dummy. There’s also problems that arrive when something is ONE frame off which results in a dummy being too far or too close to the combo-er. If that happens really far into the combo, you could have a lot of backtracking to do to find where that ONE frame difference was!

I’ve come to learn how incredible it is (what Joo has actually done) so I feel like it would be wrong not to include these things for the average gamer to understand.

Right, the positioning in marvel is by far the biggest and hardest problem to overcome. But when you do, you get combos or situations that are very special. Some of his combos use double 100% technique to insure that both characters will start moving perfectly on exactly the right frame. For instance, the Ryu27Hit Scroll FSD from DVD Preview used the double 100% technique because the positioning required in order for the follow up had to be perfect. Each character had to move exactly a certain amount of pixels in order for the OTG to work.

So yeah, there are 130 combos in this DVD. Of course, not all of them took 3 months to make, but still.

[System_1]

That is what i call Passion of Marvel!!! this dvd will be saved in my bookcase, forever.

[Magnetro]

what you don’t know is that I will probably have it before you.

Hahahha.

Holy shit I just read your signature. You’re so fucking smart. I hate you.

[Magnetro]

Hm I’ve been asking people on AIM this and so far the answers are pretty much the same…

If I were to make a video about the combo-making process, what would you like to see or what are you wondering about?

Most people say how does a ppad work.

Anything else?