Diavolo is more of a problem than what the tier list says. Confirmed ST Akuma tier.
I was unsure whether or not this game sucked the first time I played it. After a bit more time and watching some YouTube of various characters, it’s growing on me. Still very rough, but it has potential. And it certainly has enough money behind it that the developers will still support it. But it’s still kinda hard to tell what direction they might take it in (and if that direction would make the game better for more serious play).
I think the main thing that hurts throws in this game besides the lack of damage is the fact that they’re so hard to set up in a game that’s basically ruled by 5A/2A. Since frame advantage generally only comes from Stand Rush and projectiles (I think most puttsuns on non-projectiles will probably put you at about neutral on block? I haven’t really tested because I can’t even read the menus), there are very few traditional ticks. In my limited experience with Dio Brando I usually end up landing throws more from run up whiff punish grab than anything else, and that was just experimenting on PSN to see what ways I had to land grabs in such a jabtastic game. I almost certainly would have been better off just whiff-punish jabbing into full combo in those situations.
I think one thing that might make throwing in this game a bit easier would be to allow players to cancel dash recovery into attacks like…pretty much every other fighting game with run?. Would make throws that little bit faster and harder to react because you can both skip the skid when immediately throwing, and also go to jab more easily if you want to bait a whiff or a jump. IMO, this is probably the fastest thing that CC2 could do to improve the basic gameplay in JJASB.
I would also like to see more normals that are plus or at least neutral on block. Not jabs, though; I think that would have more negatives than positives in this game (footsies would become 100% jab instead of, uh…90% jab. No disadvantage on blocked jab = no more having to either stop pressing buttons or commit to more radical buttons in order to bait your opponent’s response…just go right back to jab until your opponent whiffs something and you hit).
My idea would be more like slow Soul Calibur/Tekken power pokes with frame advantage on block. Something that has a long startup (so the opponent can interrupt or escape) but does a shitton of blockstun and tracks sidestep, preferably with a long reach so that you could use it from mid-range. The idea is that players are encouraged to do something outside jab range besides jump, fish for just-defend, or fish for jab. Give the opponent a choice between being too hesitant and getting caught in a frame trap, or being too impulsive trying to avoid the frame trap and getting baited.
It might also be helpful to add a guard-cancel sidestep into the mix. Spend a bar (a *whole *bar…none of this half-bar/quarter-bar crap in a game with this much meter build) to GC sidestep a string and blow people up for just dialing into moves with safe pushback. If this renders too many strings unsafe, maybe the blockstun could be jacked up so that they’re a bit less disadvantaged on block. That way you add a few more bait points for GC sidestep if the attacker doesn’t commit to moves with longer recovery.
I still like this game (mostly because I picked a fairly stupid+strong character), I just wish it were a little bit better. Kinda reminds me of the Dissidia games for PSP – an okay game on the verge of greatness.
Another thing that needs fixing ASAP:
During all the Geese Counter moves, disable the option to mash throw escape, and also make them not counter both highs and lows, and not counter supers.
Fix burst, problem solved. At least Dio will remain a complete character.
Diavolo does do a lot of damage though, just he heavily relies on a stupidly implemented mechanic.
You can throw escape during whiffed counters? Goddammit CC2…
EDIT: Actually I take it back. Valentine’s damage doesn’t seem that bad. So I guess the damage in this game is mostly pretty good, it’s just the screwy nature of the neutral game makes it difficult to set up depending on the matchup. Plus of course this game rewards the hell out of saving all your meter for match point.
Everytime I sit down to start recording for my next CV, I just keep finding new stuff to add to my combos, I’ll never get done if this keeps happening >.< Found some really weird stuff with Will this time. Here’s one I couldn’t find a use for: After 63214+S, you can do instant air 236+H and have all three projectiles hit, but you’re too far away afterwards to follow it up it seems. HHA comes just short of reaching.
Oh yeah, while I’m here, I’ve been meaning to ask a couple quick questions about stuff I’ve watched on YouTube but don’t really understand:
Can someone explain what collecting the corpse parts does for the Steel Ball Run characters?
What does Johnny’s Tusk level affect?
Similarly, what does Purple Haze Distortion do for Fugo? Like, what is the literal effect of the super (rather than the practical results of more damage)?
-Corpse parts: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/676176-jojos-bizarre-adventure-all-star-battle/67303248
-His moveset.
-You mean his 214+3A move? It simply activates Distortion for free when you’re in resolve mode (Otherwise you have to use your GHA to activate Distortion mode). PHD gets two hits on his overhead, and his 22A move gets a hitbox, among other things.
Abdul/Avdol can do taunt combos, but you need to be using the quote that has “Hell 2 U” in it, because I don’t think they work right with the “YES I AM” quote (I could be wrong on this, though). There are a couple Abdul taunt combos in the Taunt Combos videos on ImShiawase’s Youtube channel, and I believe they utilize his HHA, dash, qcb+A PC Taunt or throw near the corner, qcb+A PC Taunt. I believe I’ve also gotten it to work off his sweep.
I know the exact feeling. the same thing keeps happening with me.
after 63214S, instead do neutral jump or back jump and then immediately j. 6S and let go into j.H. from there you can cancel the j.H into j.236S and then combo after you land. even works into GHA. you can’t loop it however, as executing a 6H will make any projectiles from 236 disappear.
if you’re planning to do a lot of extended hits after the 63214S, refrain from using the j.236S because it will add a ton of damage scaling. just something to keep in mind.
Yes, I know of that one, gonna use it in one of my combos. You can also simply instant jump j.236+S if you want, but I see no reason to do that. Btw, can you do a taunt combo with his normal QCF+As? Found a set-up where it should be able to hit without puttsun, but it just doesn’t.
I’ve never gotten it to work. I think it’s because 236S has better tracking (or bigger hitbox?) on that second projectile compared to normal versions, the one that goes low enough to hit during a taunt combo.
Not that familiar with KoF terminology, what do you guys mean by Geese Counters compared to the normal counters?
i don’t understand how Diavolo can be that high on list lol. ok he’s a great burst but so little combos, he can’t win just out of bursts… i had a dozen fights with a friend of mine which has a good diavolo (i main kars) and after realizing a bit of his setups it was quite easy for me to beat him… i lost like 1 match in total.
about Kars, since a few pages ago you were talking about him, i guess he’s a good B tier (ultikars included), you have to “choose” which form you’re gonna use since light mode is really useful if used on opponent wake up (especially bright saber mode, down down + S), i almost just use the base form if i find i can handle the match with that.
about his hard kick puttstun cancel into GHA, why? i never had trouble just activating GHA after the hard kick with no PC… did my opponents miss something? (ofc always used when the usual dio jotaro etc had no bars to interrupt me)
ACDC still has his loops right? I just watched a vid of it but his 214A isn’t poppin the opponent up for me :S. Am I missing something or is the video just incorrectly labelled?
What does ACDC’s Style button do? Does it enhances his attacks or something?
Probably not working for you because 214C is the one that pops them up.
You definitely don’t need the Puttsun in most matchups, provided you can get a good angle for the qcb+H to launch them full screen. Against a few characters, though, you need to Puttsun regardless, otherwise they can interrupt you. Just testing it now, I was able to interrupt with Dio Brando laser super, Joseph super, and Mista super, and from what you said it sounds like Time Stop might still be fast enough to interrupt as well.
Speaking of his qcb+H, I realized yesterday that it’s doable in the air as well, and started going for j.H XX qcb+H in air to air situations to good effect against a friend.
Hey I have a question on Joseph combos. Does anyone know how to retract 214M after rapid canceling? I hold the input after rc’ing but the boomerang doesn’t come back.
Here’s the combo in question at around 30s:
You need to map a separate button specifically for Puttsun Canceling so that you can continue to hold whatever button Boomerang you threw out while hitting PC. That, combined with Easy Beat, is what lets Joseph do stuff like:
2LL 5LLL XX 214[H] Puttsun dash LLL XX 4S, dash 2LL 5LLL 3S XX 22L XX super
from this other, similar Joseph combo video:
For that combo, you also have to charge the sledgehammer 22L move a small bit so that it will connect.