His stand on DP gets faster with Love Train and can be combo’d into much easier apparently, so I’m guessing it might be more useful as an anti-air option for him as well. Also, I’ve seen this guy put out some Valentine-focused videos showing that he can do decent damage for at least a bar even without a proper HHA.
Eh. In addition to being the hardest variation of those loops (as sick as they are!!) it’s still only 430ish (it looks like… low quality vids at work bwaaah) for three bars, whereas a lot of other characters can get to that same or better with 2 bars. … or PHD.
I got back from an ASB session. Most of it was me playing Avdol vs Diavolo.
Diavolo is top tier BS for sure (who the hell thought that half meter bursts into a free mixup was a good idea?) but I feel like Avdol is top tier as well, and can fight the rest of the BS in the game well.
It’s weird that I didn’t see anyone mentioning Diavolo’s j.c giving him a combo even after an air to air hit which is pretty big in this game.
Thing is, other than the close air to air scenario, Avdol’s normals completely outclass Diavolo’s in both range and speed. So Avdol can keep hitting him again and again until he runs out of bursts eventually.
Avdol’s SOff 623X is a real DP. After the C version you can PC into GHA for a nice “fuck you”.
SOn 623X is a Geese counter move that can combo into HHA on hit, and be SR’ed for safety in block and a damaging juggle on hit.
The HHA on its own is amazing. It’s invincible, fast and reaches half screen. It serves as a good whiff punisher and as an anti air that covers huge space and could probably even punish panic backward jumps.
SOff 214X is probably Avdol’s best special. If you know GGXX, it’s kinda like having a free upgraded Testament tree. Avdol shoots a fireball on the ground, which then appears in a spot depending on the button you pressed, and then moves a bit either backwards or forward, towards the enemy’s current position. It later explodes and launches the opponent in the air. If you held the button down, you can decide when it goes off by releasing the button. The best thing about it: It can blow up even while Avdol is blocking, or getting hit. You can either camp on it or set it up after a hard knockdown, as jumping past the opponent can create a left-right mixup depending on when you activate it. When it hits, you can either do 2B 5C 236A HHA up close, or HHA from farther away. One of the better zoning tools in the game IMO.
Damnit, I ordered the game last week and now it’s gonna have a US release later this year.
Meh, I don’t really agree with that list. I play against Diavolo pretty regularly and one you get used to his shenanigans it’s not that hard to work around him. At that point all you need to worry about is his jump in pop up stuff and you are good to go, he does do a lot of damage though off that move but still.
Jolyne and Will I don’t get either, Jolyne is very much a character who wears what she does on her sleeve and has some modest damage output. She can control space fairly well but I don’t see how that makes her top tier. Will I am guessing you are basing this on a single move that you nutted over? Will has some tricky stuff sure, but he has low damage output and has to really work for his wins, sweet EX spiral kick or not. Unless you have secret Will tech where he is straight up murdering people I don’t understand putting him that high.
Abdul doesn’t get any respect, he has like the only legit wake up reversal that isn’t a super and plenty of damage and options. I see him being a dark horse in this game and improving over time with players.
Hol Horse as well feels extremely low, and I think you are basing this simply on how he does against Diavolo. Which is odd considering he can Puttsun cancel into a juggle for damage Diavolo can’t avoid. His unblockable taunt combo stuff at the moment is some of the most dangerous stuff in the game, and honestly Diavolo freezing time on some bullets isn’t much of a game changer. Learning to Stylish Dodge/block properly puts a Diavolo in a bind, mostly resorting into simply dash up > throw which I am fine with. Hol Horse is much stronger than where he is sitting.
List just doesn’t feel right, rather wait and see but it’s good to see everyone’s opinion and how lists tend to fluctuate. I’m sure further DLC dudes and weird, extreme CC2 patching will shake shit up. I’m not even bothering to learn Taunt combos much considering how they handled stuff last time.
I agree with seeing EX tiger knee as overrated. This move would be too good in some other 2D fighting games, but not in this game, where okizeme isn’t nearly as threatening as the ability to win in neutral situations and convert into good damage. The mixups and pressure here are overall pretty shit so having a safe EX DP is not that much of a big deal, and what does small damage into knockdown give you?
This game is too good, gimme dat new GG and I’m set on fighters for a long time
About the only Mix-up stuff I get to work often is Jo2uke hard knockdowns into bubbles and Hol Horse bullet taunts personally. Jo2uke I am currently exploring, dude can really put out some good damage, has a deadly HHA that gives him a crumple into a combo follow-up, the aforementioned bubbles and works well if not better in Stand off so knockdowns aren’t that frustrating.
Yeah from what I’ve seen Jo2uke is really good, but I still haven’t seen a mixup that I really respect in this game. Hopefully that will change in October once the throws get buffed and the stylish move gets revamped.
this is what I was saying with regards to DIO being good for stupid reasons. I agree with most of the stuff you’re saying, but he is still that good despite it all.
DIO literally doesn’t want to do much more than 2L, jumpin, command throw, or normal throw in stand off. his tools are that bad. but honestly, that’s all he needs. because of his burst, you’re limited to doing pitiful damage to him because if you throw out anything other than 2Ls, he can punish you for it. his burst is that fast. and that’s why it’s a big deal compared to Diavolo’s.
it’s true DIO can only use it in stand off, but he recovers so much more quickly that Diavolo which makes doing anything against him so risky. and when he does successfully burst out of your combo, not only are you losing the small amount of damage you could’ve done, he’s healing it back up because he’ll end the combo with blood sucking. from there, he’ll turn his stand on and beat all of your footsie buttons with his stand on 2L and L. it’s that simple.
it’s true that DIO doesn’t do nearly as well against zoning characters, but this isn’t a game where you can do massive damage with fullscreen projectile stuff(okay there’s like 2 examples). against anyone else who is near him and pushing buttons, he puts them into a “mixup” game where it’s always good for DIO: the opponent doesn’t do something risky, they deal terrible damage to him on conversions, when they do, DIO can burst out and punish them+heal up.
like I said, even when you do hit DIO in stand on and get a full damage combo, after the knockdown he’s back in stand off so any mixup you do is going to amount to hardly anything. I would give you that DIO’s burst costs more and leaves him more vulnerable to guard crush, but honestly the guard cost doesn’t matter:
when any of those characters try to use their tools that do a lot of guard crush damage (Wham 6H, Jonathan 6M, Will EX DP), DIO will just guard cancel out of it and punish them. any time the opponent tries to pressure with anything other than 2L, it’s happy combo time for DIO. he’ll be sitting at like 30% guard meter, but then he’ll be comboing them and can pressure with stand on or sit back and throw knives.
all of the terrible things that DIO has seems to rein him in at first; but really, DIO does just fine with only using like 3 moves. it’s incredibly stupid/frustrating, but it is what it is. a smart DIO player will lame it out to the max when the opponent comes in with 2Ls, waiting for them to hit another button. and that’s the only time they’ll spend meter. it’s a sad, sad world. ;w;
EDIT: out of curiosity, I went and looked at the jp BBS character rank thread to see what they have. the latest full list posted goes thusly:
【S】
Diavolo DIO
【A】
Wham Caesar Joseph Josuke ＞ Gyro Gappy Dio Jolyne Abdul Giorno Hol Horse Pucci
【B】
Jotaro Jonathan Koichi Fugo ACDC Iggy Buccellati Polnareff Hermes Kawajiri Zeppeli
【C】
Cars Johnny Narancia Mista Kira Shigechii
【D】
Okuyasu Kakyoin Mr. President
【E】
Akira Rohan
interesting…
What you said is pretty much the problem overall in this game, if a person just downright disrespects you and can’t be trained to deal with certain stuff differently, most fighting game situations just flat out don’t work. About the only consistent thing that works is SJ cancel stuff (MOOONKEEEY!!!)
Hopefully they do fix up Throws and Stylish stuff right and further improve upon the system. I love playing the game, I just want to be rewarded better for being creative with Oki and such.
Also yeah, World DIO is not to be messed with. I put him on my list earlier since he was one of the few people to really jump out as scary to me. Despite him being the Ken equivalent online here, I don’t ever want to run into a good World DIO. Unrelated, I want to see Peanut Butter and World DIO throw down in a good set, see what shenanigans pop out of that.
Well, at least the JP players consider Wham A tier, who is my main until Ice comes out.
I admit though, I’m playing Akira Otoishi on the side because I consider him dumb, ridiculous fun, but every list I’ve seen says he sucks hahaha
Surely he isn’t the most powerful character in the game but I don’t think he’s AWFUL. Hes got some funny stuff you can set up when you charge up your electricity into the glowing bar, like free stuns to do combos. His air plane is a good anti air too if you can time it when someones trying to jump in on you, and you can juggle off of it.
What do you guys think? I think his stand being limited by his charge probably hurts him the most, which is why I’d never use him outside of for fun. But if it wasnt for that, I don’t think he’d be that terrible in comparison to everyone else.
I’ve been using a lot if characters but I guess I’ll focus on Hermes, Caesar, and ACDC for now.
ACDC is feeling the most interesting out of the pillar men right now imo.
Leebee, I saw you arguing with those guys on gamefaqs about DIO lol.
Also I how well this game is gonna sell over here when it does get released next year.
At least I know when Doppio comes out I can play him and know I’ll be top tier.
Anyone who has another person around soon who can test this: Diavolo’s anti-air grab is listed just as a High in the attack info, does that mean Zeppeli’s air-block can block it?
yeah haha. what that dude was saying was ignorant as fuck. just straight up. I still haven’t decided if I’m actually gonna go back and respond.
Akira, to me, just feels kinda disappointing. but not for the reasons you might think. he has some fun stuff (command grabs into supers are always awesome), for sure, but I was really hoping they would’ve fit an “automatic stand” playstyle into the game. and he would be the perfect character for it.
he already has the electricity gauge that gets used by various actions from RHCP, they could have it like Eddie from GG. I just feel like that’s one playstyle that’s distinctly missing from this game.
none of what I’m talking about concerns his tier listing but I thought I’d share lol
LeeBee Link (or anyone else who thinks they can do it), you should do simple character tutorial vids. Show their moves and specials, what’s good and what’s bad and a general gameplan of how to use them. Do one for each character, keep it to 3 minutes or so, and it would be a great resource for people trying to learn about the game. For all the people playing this game, it just sucks that there isn’t a single place a person can go as a learning resource, maybe this will be a good place to start.
That’s why I am trying to pay attention to this specific forum, lol.
like novril said, we may wait for the next patch before doing character specific stuff as it may change.
Yeah, I said on my youtube a while ago I wanted to wait before the changes settled before doing anything. I don’t want to make a video that ends up wrong and spreading misinformation.