I though PB Dio would be top considering how easy he is to use and does good damage? This is based on my observation as I don’t have the game yet. And I would like to know why is Diavolo placed top for you, Leebee Link?
Why did you place Diavolo so high and what makes Pucchi that good? Getting to MiH is a pain, he doesn’t have tons of damage either. Is it because of Whitesnake and his taunt infinite?
Best burst in the game that can be done from both Stand On and Stand Off (which is really, really stupid) and also doesn’t have any additional cost other then the meter. (DIO costs guard bar, and that’s really the only other burst I’d compare it to) Higher then normal meterless damage in Stand On, which is as far as I can tell, all he needs to really be in. He has great jump in’s in stand on, he has some of the most lopsided match ups in the game (zoners don’t exist vs. him), he has pretty great command grab/overheads, and Epitath takes an advantage he already has naturally (it’s hard to attack him), buffs it, and adds a timer to it.
I actually feel like Diavolo is a character who’s stock will likely go down over time as more tech is discovered, but his ability gives him 6/4 vs. half of the cast and makes the other half shorten/alter their combos vs. him. He’s only really hard countered by characters that can meter screw him easily or characters that can get launchers really early in juggles.
Fugo is only top tier because of PHD. He’s a transformation character that requires no setup and, once transformed, has some of the highest damage output in the game. And he never loses his transformation.
Outside of that he’s basically just decent. 5C in both stand on/stand off is okay anti-air, stand off 2AAB-Fork is a safe block string that can’t be IB’d. Outside of that, you’re right, there’s not a lot to him BUT PHD being basically free is enough to put him up there. There’s like, no reason to play any other transformation character when he’s in the game.
PB Dio is fantastic. I think both Leebee and I put him very high. Pretty much everyone in this game is very strong with the exception of the poor souls near the bottom, and even they have some annoying stuff that can steal rounds.
From what I’ve played of Fugo, I agree with tl_crow. He really is worth playing just for the transformation that’s almost guaranteed from round 1 of every match.
Saw this Hol Horse video earlier, apparently he can hit you with the puddle attack during your throw tech animation? Also makes for yet another taunt combo infinite for him. Pretty sure you can just hold up to avoid the throw altogether if you see the setup coming, but it’s something. Wonder if you can use this with other delayed attacks like throw tech into Joseph’s return bolas toss.
PB Dio is pretty good, but he doesn’t really have a good way to get out of pressure save for his kinda slow counter. once he gets that momentum going, he’s in a good spot.
Diavolo is so high because his burst is cheap and he effectively prevents the opponent from doing more powerful combos because of the risk that he can time erasure in the middle of it and then punish you for it. he does have quite a bit of recovery from starting it, so he can’t punish some special moves. but it definitely limits your damage. he does great damage in stand off and can convert off of j.H so easily. he has a good overhead and a command grab to mix things up. that also helps his post time erasure mixup. with the counter time erasure, Diavolo pretty handily beats zoning characters.
I honestly think he would be fine if they would just make his burst time erasure cost 1 bar and give him a little more recovery time on it. he’d still be able to use it pretty often to keep his character concept intact, but he would need to think a lot more and wouldn’t just always have it available.
Pucci is that high because sealing the opponent’s disk really fucks over a few characters, and he has dat infinite. MiH is also instant win for a round so if he does get it, there’s that.
DIO is up with Diavolo because of his burst. he recovers so quickly that basically anything higher strength than a L attack can be punished by it for only half a bar (and some guard meter). the important part of this is that DIO is effectively making your combos really shitty because if you try to do something more than just like 2L,2L,2H, you can get punished. and if he times the burst right, he could even get out of that 2H and punish you.
so even though DIO’s damage is mediocre (especially after the patch), he’s doing more damage than you are because you can’t risk using more specials. you can go straight into super but still, you’re missing out on so much potential damage. DIO’s already succeeding in fucking you over. for combos, he really doesn’t need much more than 2L,2L,L,M,H,421A to deal decent damage and to heal back the pititful amount you’ve dealt him.
he has terrible normals in stand off, for sure, but in stand on, his 2L is like the best normal in the game. it’s so effing fast, huge range, able to hit it like 3 times to confirm into whatever. he also has a quick to recover projectile so if he’s got the life lead, he’s pretty content to just hang back and chuck some knives. when the opportunity arises, he can use whatever meter he hasn’t spent on bursts on supers to end combos or a time stop to do a little unblockable damage. he can capitalize off of his throw this way if they got tossed far, as even if they manage to jump at the beginning of the timestop, as long as they are low to the ground he can use stand off BnB into 421A to deal some extra damage, stop the the timestop (you can usually get it in so that it will only cost you half a bar or so), and heal yourself. DIO’s burst really needs to cost like 1.5 bars. shit is fucking dumb. oh and if he is on the defensive, he can use it on block to punish so much stuff.
and if you do mount an offense against him and hit him in stand on to deal full damage in a combo, as soon as he wakes up he’s back in stand off (letting him burst) so your okizeme won’t really amount to much probably.
just as a reference, I believe the game is pretty well balanced around that high tier area, but I think Diavolo and DIO are significantly better than everyone else. for pretty dumb reasons.
I’m fine with it. If DIO and Diavolo WEREN’T top tier, I’d be concerned. I’m honestly surprised Valentine is that low, he’s fairly well-rounded.
Valentine is fine. His damage output is low and his offense is kind of stilted outside of Stand On, but getting all three corpse parts is just as annoying and game changing as Dio/Diavolo’s Burst. The problem is that he has to get them and keep them, lol.
I really wish Stand On DP had invincibility. I don’t understand the point of that move currently.
agreed. it seems odd. I put him that low because as awesome as getting Love Train is, it’s not going to win you the match on it’s own. you are taking a lot less damage, but that’s defensive. you’ve still gotta now mount an offense. with speed up on stand on 214 is nice, but without an offensive HHA, Valentine’s damage output is still low.
projectile immunity is baws though. the president is an interesting and odd character. his stand on dp, his revolver always only firing 6 shots (why not 1 for L and 3 for M?) seem strange.
Based on the comic, obviously.
This is all interesting and I’m still learning, so what is “burst” and “okizeme?”
Okizeme is a fighting game concept. http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Okizeme
Burst is also a fighting game concept. In ASB, its probably more accurate to refer to it as an “interrupt.” Its not a true burst like guilty gear or blaz blue which use a multiple button command. The basic idea is that it is an action (or in the case of DIO and Diavolo, a special move) that you do while your opponent is trying to attack/combo you. This stops your opponents combo attempt and knocks em away. Diavolo’s “burst” actually removes damage from him if done correctly, and for free.
I’d actually like to talk about DIO because Leebee makes VERY good points, but at the same time… maybe it’s just because I’ve been playing him and there’s some small part of me that is downplaying his strengths, lol, but I feel like DIO is, in a lot of ways, a blueprint for what a ‘balanced’ Diavolo looks like.
In Stand OFF, his only safe moves are 2A and qcf+atk. All his other normals and specials are wildly unsafe. QCF+ATK cannot be used in blockstrings safely because of gaps (the screen freeze is a flashing “Please IB me” sign) QCF+ATK is nice as a 4-5 character length get in move, but it’s practicality otherwise is kind of limited except as a whiff punish (or troll string ender versus those not in the IB know.)
Stand Off is all about landing 2A/throw/Jumpin/command grab. Burst is less insane then Diavolo’s and costs him more (20% guard meter/ 50% meter). Without spending meter DIO’s damage in stand off is quite bad. He has a simple puttstun combo in S/off that builds back 40% meter, nothing special but nothing to sneeze at either. Because of the way his burst/counter works, he dosen’t auto-win versus zoneing. The worst things about Stand Off are it’s meter build versus non-JoJo’s and the fact your anti-air is pretty much counter/5C(which is awful). The fact that DIO’s burst is limited to his guard bar is by far one of his biggest weaknesses, and characters that can wear the guard bar down (Will/Johnathan/Wham just off the top of my head) make big gains in this matchup that they don’t get in the Diavolo matchup.
STAND ON is wildly different. MudaMuda builds hella meter, has a godlike 5A/2A, much safer 5B/2B, and knife gives him a real zoneing/lockdown tool. However… that’s like, it. STAND ON hurts more but it’s not doing much for DIO except building him meter. It makes his hitbox bigger and you lose your Burst.
And… that’s the big thing that seperates Diavolo and DIO. Diavolo always has burst as long as he has meter, and removes some characters viability by simply being. DIO burst has a lot more ‘checks’ on it, and unless he scores the blood drain on a JoJo, he has to go into Stand ON at some point and make himself temporarily burstless.
I go back and forth on DIO. When the game came out I had him in top tier but the more I play him locally the less impressed I am with him.
This is all interesting and I’m still learning, so what is “burst” and “okizeme?”
lol
I apologize Kazuya fan, i suspect my wall of text got in the way. :S
Can you explain why you put Will Zeppeli in S? I haven’t seen much footage of him so I don’t know what he’s capable of.
A) A real DP.
B) Super Jump is 1f = no meaties or oki works on him
C) EX DP is literately the most broken move in the game. Overhead, safe, guard break, invincible, knockdown.
The rest of his options being pretty poor are literately the only reasons he’s not with Diavolo and friends.
Oh that kind of burst, I thought it was a completely different mechanic.