JoJo's Bizarre Adventure All-Star Battle confirmed by Bandai-Namco

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
2161

the way juggles work in “air resets” (moves that don’t knock down like normals…etc.)

is that you can either hit them quickly enough so that the combo continues (hit someone with Will’s EX cutter in the air to see this in action),

or you can wait until they’ve finished their little flip animation and hit them after it’s done. you can do this by AA’ing them from high enough and then hitting them when they’re lower to the ground.

there’s a period where you can’t juggle them because they’re in the middle of that flip animation.

another caveat: whenever you see someone hit out of the air with a normal or move that causes an air reset and then they land and you continue to hit them, thus it saying it “combos,” it’s not an actual combo. they can block once they reach the ground. it’s just a visual thing. adakino did a test to show you can block them.

most crumple moves still cause a crumple when you get hit in the air by them though (Caesar EX dp, Abdul 41236A…etc.) dunno if hanged man does.

2162

Oh, okay, so there’s a window both before AND after the reset invulnerability where you can be hit. And the combo counter’s not that smart. Thanks for the clarification, Leebee.

2163

Casual matches from last night in Deltona. Bear in mind that most of the people playing are still relatively new to the game, and in many cases this was my first time playing certain characters against human beings. Things I learned:

  • Part 1 Dio is still my boy. I have to tighten up my neutral game a bit more, approaching a bit more cautiously (sidestep, not SJ!) and mixing up my SJC’s more than I did, but it’s pretty clear I understand him better than most characters in this game. I had no idea what his optimal oki was from hard knockdown, though, because I was too used to just doing stupid freeze mixups on the computer in Campaign mode, which of course the computer is way too dumb to block. So I just kind of improvised as best I knew how with whiff jabs and whiff cancel vertical SJCs into…crossups that weren’t really ambiguous and would probably whiff anyway. I’ll review on the weekends.

  • I had a rough start with DIO because I knew basic combos from Son j236 and…that was it, really. I basically made up his neutral game on the fly, and by the end I was beginning to identify my biggest mistakes at neutral. I figured out Son normals easily enough, but I was pretty clueless in Soff.

  • I practiced Lisa Lisa more than any other character who wasn’t named Dio, and it kinda shows. I didn’t save enough meter to attempt any of the >1-bar BnBs, but at least my confirms weren’t too bad. Really like this character despite her bad points.

  • I need to go back to Old Joseph. Holy shit, that anti-air grab is amazing against people who can’t stop jumping. I dunno why I put that old man on the back burner, but that was probably a mistake on my part. Time to learn the 41236S > Son > OTG grab and OTG grab > PC > Soff links and go to town.

  • i played Zeppeli vs Narancia pretty poorly. I had a hard time accepting that there’s very little if any opportunity to safely do j236H to create charge opportunities without getting shot out of the air. I would have been better off just sidestepping fireballs and Hamon charging. Going in against Narancia was also probably a mistake; it was too hard to hit him with gimmicky j6S pseudo-tri-jump attacks, and his normals are NOT gonna outpoke Narancia’s. In the future, I need to just play that matchup lame as shit, focusing on meter build and getting out of trouble with that beautiful (if gimmicky) 623S.

  • I need to learn combos from DP PC with Wham. So much meter and I had no idea how to use it aside from “eventually I will hit that combo into Holy Sandstorm”.

  • Pucci is not a 5-minute character. He requires patience and subtlety when spacing at neutral – which is bad because what I really want to do is wavedash and throw discs. So he’s probably not the character for me, which is a shame, because Pucci is awesome.

  • I need to practice Jonathan on a stick where I can actually do a qcf without hitting back. On the one hand, he’s obnoxiously execution-heavy for his good stuff. On the other hand, he’s huge, he’s awesome, he can have a punch-off with Star Platinum bare-handed, and has Bison’s forward throw (into combo!). He is definitely one of my favorite characters that I can’t play. Maybe someday…

  • I need to practice SD’ing Narancia strings more – even with the throw in there, I should be able to jump out on reaction while still feathering back with SD timing.

  • Damn you, Hanged Man. I’m glad you went to hell (along with poor Hol Horse, who didn’t know WTF was going on in Morioh).

2164

Thanks for the vids Ben. I haven’t finished going through them, but do you remember which one had the air reset into Hanged Man?

2165

Is it just me or is Naranch kind of a beast?

2166

Great vids, Ben!

Even if these are ‘first casuals’ I actually think you guys are doing great, you and CanadianDestroyer in particular are understanding the meta part pretty well.

On Narancia v. PB Dio

He did a lot of walking under your SJC’s midscreen, and I really liked that standrushed to push you into a stage hazard mid blockstring, although he went too far and got hit as well, haha.

It’s tough to give PB Dio advice because the character is so straight forward, haha. You’re mostly doing what you need to do, I’d like to see more supers for kill combos (there were a few times you gave up rounds because you went for PC > Bloodsuck) and PB Dio actually gets safe jump like setups post throw/blood drain that you can use. That’s kind of a weird matchup because Narancia has the right type of moveset to keep PB Dio out (invincibile DP, 6C has a big front hitbox, his smaller hitbox is harder to hit some of PB Dio’s jump normals on, bullet jumping attacks can cover the sky, he can probably super the mid/low/counter mixup on reaction) but you can still smother him pretty hard once you get in.

If you’re going to SJC and he likes to walk under you, either SJC far away using 9 (giving up space to him but keeping you completely safe) or neutral SJC and don’t attack, forcing him to either hit you in the air or throw you. He never once tried to throw you, he just did 5A/2A when you landed.

What I really liked from you both the most is that you started adapting to each other really quickly. You started jumping out of the throw/bullet mixup in Narancia’s S/off blockstring, he started cutting his strings short to bait out jumps. Any roughness that you guys have now will easily get ironed out by just playing more.

On Lisa v. Horse

I’m not really sure what Lisa Lisa can do in this match to beat hanged man aside from just throw Hol Horse and/or get him away from the puddle. If her command slide has invincibility you could try that mid string (it’s kind of obvious when Hol Horse will want to hanged man), but outside of that… level 1 won’t combo (even if it’s invincibile/unblockable, I’m sure if you do it from a normal to beat hanged man, that hol horse can just jump out), and i doubt she can counter hanged man with her level 2. This match looks rough for her, although thankfully she’s got dat mixup momentum working for her, and Hol Horse deals less damage to women. (lol)

Also at one point you SD’d a air bullet and ran in and punished it’s recovery for a full combo uggggh

Also, that setup of puddle>throw>taunt combo crumple was sick on CanadianDestroyer’s part. Everyone goes for taunt combos mid combo with hol horse, but this is even scarier because you can’t just downback a hol horse that knows how to do this.

Avdol v. Horse

Notafiend is obviously newer to the game so I don’t want to say too much, but I think it’s also obvious that he learns super fast. I was really impressed that when he made a mistake (shooting CFH at Hol Horse charged bullets), he almost immediately adjusted on the fly. That’s sick. He also learned (or coincidentally just figured it out by accident) that ending your string early into level 1 beats hanged man, which there are players still today that haven’t learned to do that, haha. He even traded air-to-air and then ran under during the reset to make the nearby puddle a non factor.

I just made it to the DIO v. Hol Horse matches. Work is starting to pick up again so I’ll have to watch the rest later when we slow down. Regardless, thanks for these, keep playing!!

2167

Planche: Haven’t rewatched them all yet, but I’m fairly sure I was thinking of one of the DIO matches was where it happened, possibly one of the Lisa Lisa ones as well. And now I think Leebee’s right and it wasn’t a “true” reset; I just got hit because I wasn’t blocking when I landed (I was trying to Stylish Dodge many times to see if that truly was a combo, but presumably I messed up repeatedly and got hit.

tl_crow: Thanks for the feedback.

I started early in the set by SJC’ing forward a lot on block, which I’m fairly certain IS safe against anybody except characters with really fast long-range supers (Jolyne). Then I started getting greedy and SJC’ing vertically just to see if I could get away with it. Eventually I got punished, which was good, but I was also trying to see if I could [i[find* a chain (hadn’t practiced blockstrings in weeks, too much Campaign mode) that would put me at the right spacing where jL/jM would at least touch the opponent, OR where I could do a ghetto front-back with jM (hits front) jH (hits back).

I’m also fairly certain that Hol Horse actually deals MORE damage to women, lol – pretty sure I had that wrong. I knew the translated movelists all said “MORE damage” and I thought “that can’t be right, I read the manga, Hol Horse is way too much of a ladies’ man to get off on beating them up” – and then I remembered J. Geil and HIS policy towards women. So I should really check that out this weekend to make sure I actually understand what I’m talking about.

But I think you’re right about LL vs. HH; it’s just hard to escape J. Geil compared to characters like the Dios because she has less easy access to cinematic moves than they do She has 8X, but she has to go through rekkas, and HHA is expensive + I don’t think hers is invincible. Puttsun is probably the best answer to that problem, I think. I had no idea she HAD a mid-rekka command dodge until yesterday, lol; that was the first time I ever saw a translated movelist about her. I can’t read Japanese, so I only knew what I saw on YouTube/Nico and what my brother could translate of her movelist.

Notafiend has a good excuse for not knowing Avdol/the game, he plays KOF 13 and GGXX (his Millia is really good) these days, and much more and better than I do. Same deal with HsienJo who shows up later in the set. CanadianDestroyer and I were the strongest players mostly because we’ve followed this game a bit more closely than they have (that and we both kept our focus on relatively easy characters like the Dios, Hol Horse, and Narancia). I mostly go hard on this game because I literally have no time for any other fighting game these days. That and I love JoJo.

2168

yeah Hol does more damage to women. “I’m a guy who loves women!” -trademark man who hates women line haha. I’ve already found some better BnB stuff for the characters I featured in my first video. Will have to make some revisions or something… :slight_smile:

2169

As I recall, Hol Horse Respects Women is less meter gain and increased damage. Which is fine by me as Hol Horse doesn’t use a lot of meter as it is.

Walking under those jump cancels I kept trying to tripguard with c.A, Narancia has a stupidly low profile SOff c.A that beats a lot of cross ups clean, but I was early more often than not. Should’ve just sold out and did turbo low A like Not A Fiend does.
Not A Fiend going into cinematic super was definitely a product of him tearing his hair out trying to figure out an answer to the Hanged Man a few weeks prior. Our group has a couple other JoJos players, but most of them were much too busy cracking out on BB to run a couple sets in JoJos.

2170

Well I’m just 100% wrong about Hol’s opinion towards women, then! Hol, YOU GIGANTIC ASSHOLE

2171

Narancia is just a mid/low char imho, ofc one of the chars i prefer besides Kars (which is mid shitty as well) :frowning:

2172

While in real life the “I respect women” line is properly recognized as condescending, I’m pretty sure Hol Horse at least kinda believes his own pseudo-chivalrous schpiel. He believes in manipulating them, but not physically hurting them. The fanservice justification for the “I respect women” damage mechanic is probably based more around J. Geil, who of course is a murderous, raping, double-left-handed douchebag. Hol Horse isn’t into that stuff (which is why he builds less meter?), but J. Geil lives for it (which is why he does more damage?).

Narancia I would say is somewhere around the middle of mid-tier. He has good Stand Rush utility and okay damage relative to his attack range, but he’s not particularly hard to block (unless you do like me and try foolishly to make his Soff jM whiff when that thing hits deeper than a damn oil drill). He of course has unblockable gimmicks in both Son and Soff, but they’re all incredibly unsafe if read. His main strengths are good meter build from that DP of his, efficient use of Stand Rush pressure, and of course those really good zoning normals that give rushdown characters lots of trouble. By contrast, Hol Horse sacrifices Stand Rush pressure, but gains insane meterless damage and utility from Hanged Man that Narancia can’t match.

2173

Lisa Lisa’s command dash (236A > L > L) is apparently full body invulnerable for a good chunk of the animation – she goes right through Okuyasu’s GHA at 1:17 in this video!

I’ll need to test this with other attacks to make sure it’s not a lucky hitbox quirk (like Okuyasu’s GHA only hits far away from him or has like 1 active frame or something), but this is very promising. I always thought spamming this move for pressure or ghetto Mishima wavedashing was a gimmick, but this kinda changes things a bit if she’s that well protected until she can PC or execute another rekka move.

2174

is it possible to avoid the neck-throw when you get hit by the LisaLisa combo?

2175

I kinda suspected there was something special about that dash, but haven’t really tested it extensively. What I did notice though was that there’s this slight tint on Lisa during the dash, which I figure might be to indicate the invincible period. She also has this tint when she does her 236A>H>H chain, which does the sweep into hop over the opponent. The tint is there for at least the first part of the hop, so I’m guessing she might be invincible there too.

2176

Jump away. However, if she does the 6A finisher instead of the neck-throw, it catches you out of the jump. That’s the mixup - once she conditions you to jump away, you’re gonna get tagged by the scarf (and vice versa).

2177

So I’m thinking Kawajiri flat out loses to Kakyoin if they stick to a spacing game. I’m hoping to get some more in on this match-up later, but he can’t really handle emerald splash at max distance, and has to work to get around trees too much.

Some more random Akira match-up stuff:
-vs Johnny:
This is probably one of his clunkier match-ups due to the fact extra charged 41236A doesn’t stun if he is on horse, and it whiffs if he is off horse. His 63214H is still pretty useful when dealing with Johnny’s Horse 236A since it can hit him past the max range of the bullets.
-vs Kakyoin:
after going back and playing this some more, he can’t punish Emerald Splash with his 63214A. If you are a bit late on calling out Peppers he can get hit by the splash as well.

Hoping to get some more irl games in tomorrow.

2178

Yeah, pretty much. And honestly, unless you’ve been doing really badly the whole match, I wouldn’t worry too much about getting hit by the 8X throw. It makes you LOOK like an idiot, but you only take 40 damage for being overly cautious, as opposed to 200 (or more) if she does 6X > HHA or 6X > PC and you get hit for non-invincible mashing/jumping (though the latter would be REALLY hard to optimally capitalize on if you just randomly hit somebody, since you’ll probably get the crumple unless you’re psychic).

I used to wonder why 8X hit for so little, until I realized how many of Lisa Lisa’s moves appear to have actual evasive properties. I don’t think she’s invincible during 8X, but I think she flings her hurtbox into the air fast enough that most mashed ground moves won’t reach high enough to touch her. So maybe CC2’s idea behind that move was in exchange for being a love tap, it’ll go over all kinds of crap – but I’ll need to test it further.

I was a fool to think this character was too much work. My favorite character in this game who’s not named Dio or Joseph, that’s for sure.

I dunno if it’s invincible, but personally I think the hop has a lot more potential than the rekka sweep it’s attached to. The sweep can be good cheap filler for a really basic 236S combo, but you can’t really use it on block because it’s easily interrupted by 2L. The 236 > L and 236 > M options don’t have this problem.

One thing I have been playing with (at least in low-risk matchups), however, is whiffing both 236 and the sweep on a knocked-down opponent and trying to time the hop as a last-second corpse hop. If I find out that the hop is actually invincible, I might also be able to time the hop earlier to both bait and switch sides on certain reversals. I’m still locked into rekka state from the hop, of course, but it might be useful with meter for an HHA or PC if I get a good hit.

2179

The best use I’ve found for the 236L - Hsweep rekka is doing it meaty when the opponent is getting up, specifically after a super or an EXed 6 ender. So, do a knockdown, whiff the 236A and then mixup with the M and H followups. If your timing is good, they’ll hit before the opponent can actually get anything out if they try to go for reversal. If they block, go with the 8 ender to return to a neutral situation. Just be weary of opponents with instant counter supers.

2180

*Keep the Akira info coming, there is very little knowledge about him floating on the web. I keep seeing his name pop up as bottom 3 but the footage of him doesn’t sell me on that idea.

I really can’t wait for the NA version to drop so I can test out shit for myself. *