Fundamental, Bible believing Christians, should not be praying to saints. Period.
what I meant to say isn’t that people don’t do it, I’m saying it’s completely unbiblical and it’s foolish.
Are you aware that Catholics don’t pray to saints?
Are you aware where the sect of your Christianity comes from?
It’s laughable how you can dismiss anyone who doesn’t conform to your personal interpretation of the bible as “not a christian” at the same time as you try to persuade non-believers to your side.
Are you really that blind or just that stupid?
Please tell us all what it takes to be a True Christian™ and when God decided to make you the final arbiter of such judgement?
I’m fully aware that not all Catholics don’t pray to saints, but I know plenty that do.
As I’ve said already, Saint Prayer is unbiblical. Before you use your ad hominem against me, show me the support that says that Christians should be praying to saints. As far as fundamental doctrine is concerned, saint prayer isn’t Christian, and you calling me blind or stupid doesn’t change that.
No one needs saints to intercede for them.
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/praying-saints-biblical
Please tell us all what it takes to be a True Christian™ and when God decided to make you the final arbiter of such judgement?
What sect of Christianity to you follow? Whatever it is, I can find 10 other sects that will call you un-christian because of your identification.
Catholics no more pray to saints than you “pray” to your minister when you ask him to pray for you. Or an elder, or anyone else have spiritual respect for. You show your ignorance of basic catholic doctrine and practice, and paint yourself as a giant pompous asshole
Where do you think your christianity came from? I got news for you, if you’re a christian and not a catholic, you belong to a cult. It may have a lot of members, but it’s a cult, by any definition of the word.
You are like a dittohead tea bagger, regurgitating glenn beck, or in this case right wing fundamentalist internet apologetics in order to call other believers un-christian. You are more than enough proof yourself that there is no Christian god, as he would never suffer followers this hateful and stupid.
How old are you to be so ignorant and yet talk arrogantly? I’ve got a sneaking hunch that I was a hardcore christian for longer than you’ve been alive.
It’s very different praying to a dead saint to ask for intercession than it is to ask my pastor to pray for me. Why? Because my pastor is alive. Because by asking my pastor to pray for me, I’m not praying to him, I’m asking that he prays on my behalf. The difference is, in order to request a saint to pray for you, you pray to them then they pray to God. If I were to ask my pastor to pray for me, I would still be praying to God too. We would both be approaching God independently for the same reason, instead of me approaching St. _______ for him/her to go to God.
You say “Catholics no more pray to saints than you “pray” to your minister when you ask him to pray for you. Or an elder, or anyone else have spiritual respect for. You show your ignorance of basic catholic doctrine and practice, and paint yourself as a giant pompous asshole.” But in all honesty, you just made a huge assumption about not only me and my understanding of catholic doctrine, but your claim also assumes that you know the prayers of every Catholic that has ever existed. Frankly, I don’t think you do, so it’s a very presumptuous claim to say that, especially after accusing me of doing the same thing. What’s poetic, though, is that I acknowledged that not all catholics do, while you left it open ended.
By calling my doctrine that of a cult in comparison to Roman Catholicism, do you think you’ve knocked me down a few pegs? Do you think that it’s possible to be a derivation of the Roman Catholic church and still be doctrinally correct? Think about it, historically speaking Martin Luther posted his theses for a reason. Why? Because the Catholic church had gotten off doctrine.
I never made any claims to be the arbiter for Christianity, but I am one that thinks that some ideas are less ambiguous than others and saint prayer is one of them.
In the end, you bring up some appeal to authority because you’ve been a “hardcore” Christian longer than I have? That doesn’t make your argument any stronger. If you were that hardcore, you’d remember what Jesus said. “No one comes to the father except through me.” That’s why saint prayer and worship is doctrinally unsound. It takes Jesus out of the equation, and you end up relying on saints instead of Christ.
I’m no arbiter because I can’t know the hearts of anyone, but I can say that unbiblical practice is a good way to divert your attention
http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/are-roman-catholics-christian
Hugo be praised, indeed!
The spell of our Lord Hugo is Weaving its way into the hearts of good SRKers forum wide. :woot:
Have I not made it clear that I really don’t give a damn what your fundie website claims?
This exchange speaks for itself. You know nothing of Catholicism except what a bigoted website claims, and you use it to ex-communicate THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS ON THE PLANET.
Uhm, when you said that the largest population of christians on the planet are not actually christians, that’s exactly what you did. How divorced from reality are you?
Here’s a suggestion: how about you Christians actually decide on what being a Christian is, AND THEN try to convert somebody? 
I’m still waiting for you to show me with the Bible why my doctrine is wrong. You can tell me all you want that what I say goes against catholic teaching. I think Catholic teaching is off the money, and the reason why is because it focuses too much on tradition and the Bible as opposed to just the Bible. As I’ve asked already, if you are going to make claims that my doctrine is bad, show me where.
You can make laughter and riotous claims all you want, but until you show me instead of just writing me off, I’m not going to heed any of it. I’m not trying to be “ignorant.” I’ve asked you to show me, and if you can show me, I’d be willing to learn, but as far as you’re concerned, you’ve done nothing to teach me, you’ve just ridiculed me. If you’ve been given this great revelation and greater knowledge, by all means douse me with it. But until you can say something other than ad-hominem, my point stands.
Your lord is unjust and cruel! He could have prevented much suffering had he not allowed Isildur to keep the Ring!
'Twas all part of his grand design.
No one truly died in The War of The Last Alliance - nor thereafter.
They are all alive and well - safe inside the Matirx, nestled alongside Natalie Portman, within Hugo’s loving embrace.
I dont have to tell you your doctrine is wrong! There is no god so obviously it’s wrong! But if you want other christians to tell you your doctrine is wrong, then you can start by asking THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS ON THE PLANET aka Catholics, who will tell you that you are not following the one true church and that all your doctrines are wrong. You could also ask the bible literalists and dozens of other fundie groups who I’m sure would call you un-christian for a variety of the doctrines you believe in.
Why do you not get that? Just as many christians believe you arent a true christian as you do them.
“I think Catholic teaching is off the money because it focuses too much on tradition” - Do you not see how weak your reasoning is? I mean really? Is there not a little voice in your head right now going “maybe I dont know as much about catholicism as I thought I did?” I was a protestant, I thought Catholics weren’t true christians because of random bigoted things I’d learned from growing up and going to church in the south, and I had just as hard a time explaining why I was a true christian and they weren’t as you are having right now.
Jesus is supposed to be about love, not hate, but all I see from you is holier than thou bigotry towards another group of people.
You’re arguing with someone who honestly believes that, just because the arguments for, A. the existence of something and B. the inexistence of something, appear mathematically equal on paper, that it is sane for him to assert that you have to prove the inexistence of something unproven and unprovable in order to assert its inexistence.
Proof, by it’s very nature demands things from which to be drawn.
The silly prat isn’t going to let it go, because you can’t prove that the invisible unicorns living in a infinitesimal pocket universe in, well, my pocket, don’t have beards for which to be shaved by Occam’s Razor.
Hugo weeps for his foolish child’s ignorance.
MANLY TEARS.
Our Lord Hugo taught Kenshiro, Raoh, and the rest of the HNK cast how cry like men.
My girlfriend’s family is Catholic. My step family is catholic. I don’t hate Catholics. I think that Catholics go to heaven, but I also think that bad doctrine is an issue, and as far as saint prayer goes, it’s unbiblical. You’ve come up with an entire idea of my view of catholic doctrine based off of just my view of one issue. I don’t call Catholics “Christian,” because in my experience, they refer to themselves as catholic, whereas all the protestants/baptists/lutherans/etc. I know would call themselves Christian first. Catholics, just like Christians, will be saved by their faith, I don’t think that Catholics aren’t going to heaven, I just think some of their practice has no Biblical support.
I kind of laughed at the first two sentences of your reply. I guess I wasn’t expecting you to say that so outright, but you did, and it caught me a little off guard.
Once more, I think salvation through Jesus is a matter of the heart. I think there are people who declare themselves Catholic that don’t think so, and I know there are people who are Christian that don’t practice this either. I fully understand that many branches of Christianity that think that my doctrine is just as off, but I extend the same request to them. If they can show me where I’m wrong instead of just telling me I’m wrong, I would be much more obliged to accept it. Gorath, I’m not trying to make you angry, I’m sorry if I did. I’ve done my best to remain as calm as I can in this thread, but you called me doctrinally wrong and then told me that because there’s no arbiter, no one can really be right. I got defensive, and I’m sorry. I didn’t mean for that to happen.
Lies and conspiracy! You followers of Hugo so conveniently dismiss the heretical and often ignored books of his teachings, Reloaded and Revolution! What about the chapters discussing The Great Floods (of Sentinals) In Zion with each coming of The False Prophet? Hugo slaughters those proud rebels who were cast out of his heavenly Matrix time after time! I refuse to believe in this vengeful elf program deity of yours!
Those books are corrupted texts of His words, tainted by human interference.
Hugo forgives them, even as he shall eventually forgive the heinous greed of the Brothers Wachowski who did so falsify His Name.
He does not, however, ask that we forgive them, nor give them another red cent.
Do no take lightly Hugo’s Vendetta. Or Natalie Portman. Don’t take her lightly either.
Hugo decrees that we take Natalie Portman any way we can.
For most, this implies fapping heavily.
But not Hugo.
Hugo took her into his arms, and exposed her to all the wonders of the Weaving.
She is the Blessed Not-a-virgin, of Hugoism.
…
Can I still be saved? Is it too late for me to be born again into the Matrix?
I thought we were trying to get out of the Matrix?
Hugo allows for all to be saved - even the Wachowskis.
All you need do is fap to Natalie Portman, at least once in your life, and you are saved.
But not the Wachowskis.
The Wachowskis have to fap to Clive Owens’s ears adorned by the panties of Portman (also known as The Shroud of Portman), as depicted in the pagan scroll of Closer.
Such is the profound justice of our Lord Hugo.