Jack-X Research and Application Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
1

This thread is for people to write up technology they have been working on and their results, as well as for other players to input their uses of the tech to.

Have a question about a concept? Post it here

Have a finding you want to share? Post it here.

Have an opinion on already known concepts? Post it here

Got some new technology? Post it here!

[LIST]
[][LIST]
[]Note: Videos are under the description of the setup it is showing.
[KD]=Knockdown

Seismo setups:
-Seismo [ hits grounded] [KD] > forward dash > Same strength seismo [details=Spoiler][media=youtube]7k8pm_LiQXI[/media][/details]
-Lp dp > HP dp [KD] > jump over >c.lk xx lp seismo
-lk/mk/hk tackle [KD] > hp/mp/lp seismo (second hit is meaty)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Q78FyyhRlpw[/media]

-Alioune trap (e.g hk tackle > hk tackle) [opponent rolls] > lp seismo (mp seismo if done from mk tackle [KD] > mk tackle?)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]rWmCvapbTkw[/media]

-lp dp > lp dp >lk [whiff] > lp seismo
-Launcher [other character] > target: mpx3 [hit] hp [whiff] > mp seismo
-Seismo/tackle > lpx3/lpx1 [whiff] >seismo (version depends on pre seismo/tackle version)- Did I get it right Joe?

Spoiler

[media=youtube]rXYKvhAf9Zw[/media]

Tackle setups:
-Alioune trap: Hk tackle/mk tackle/sweep > hk tackle

Spoiler

[media=youtube]omD4sH7Dvt4[/media]

Various setups:
-Hk tackle/mp dp > forward jump hk (good safe jump)
-Lp dp > HP dp [KD] > jump over >c.lk xx lp dp/target: mpx3
-[situation where oponent will have to block medium/hp seismo] mp>charge mp[full screen punch] (invurnerable to reversals)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Qa8EUP_fizU[/media]

-Alioune trap (e.g hk tackle > hk tackle) [opponent rolls] > gigaton punch
-Hk tackle > [predict roll] > charge gigaton punch to ex
-Launcher [other character] > jab xx lp dp >empty forward jump (ambigous xup or not)
-lp dp > lk [KD] > forward jump Hk (deep same side meaty)/forward empty jump c.lk
-lk tackle [KD] > target: mk mp mp charge (If oponent rolls: wakes up into armored attack)

Other technology:
-target: mk mp mp [charge] has armor during the whole charge
-lk chains to close mp from almost close range
-c.lp XX target: far mp mp is a true blockstring
-Jack can kara his hp into all secial moves
-target mpx3 [kara] hp xx ex gigaton comboes
-drop attack from fly knocks oponent up higher if done at apex of flight. Hit D just about when the jet noise stops before he falls.
-flight done low to the ground (e.g after mp dp) will cancel itself sometimes when the opponent uppercuts.
-You can cancel landing frames of flight with an attack or another jump
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
Write a reply.

Enjoy guys.

2

May as well post this here then!

Alioune found this initially, so credit goes to him. HK shoulder > Meaty HK shoulder absorbs reversals and it safe against most things aside 3 frame dps, really good setup! I also found these today. Sweep > meaty HK shoulder, absorbs and safe against 3 frame reversals. Seismo > meaty HK shoulder and LP DP > meaty HK shoulder work the same, just got to delay slightly. Oh and remember these last two only work if the opponent quick rises.

Other stuff, HK shoulder > Jump HK is a really nice meaty setup to get in. It’s not safe against 3 frame DPs though. You can do a similar thing after Cr.Hp. These are useful because they work against quick risers and in these situations the opponent is likely to quick rise.

St.lk chains into close medium punch from almost max range!!! That’s amazing, because st.lk is his fastest normal and has a great hitbox. This lets you get in and do massive damage if you land the hit, as well as being safe. You can also cancel the second mp into EX piston for huge damage.

A really nice meaty setup you can do is say after a launcher, lp dp > HP dp. Then jump over and do cr.lk into st.mp chain. This beats button presses completely and because you jump over it’s hard for the opponent to roll out. Great way to setup an offense. You can also do a safe cr.lk > lp dp to confirm into a combo, or you can do seismo which has soo much priority lol. I’ve been finding it hard setting things up with Jack on wake up and getting out buttoned, but this should help a lot!

Oh yeah, not sure if this has been found already, but the last mp in the mk, mp, mp chain, when charged, has a point of armor on it!

3

On the defensive side, Ryan hunter founded that Jacks lp xx stand mp mp is a true block string with no gap. I’ve been using this as a mid range poke to to give me some breath.

Also I have a “force grounded” set up if I think my opponent is going to quick rise. In a situation where they would get hit by medium or hp seismo I do mp,mp(full charge) by the time they get up it forces them block the full screen punch. They cannot even reversal the charge mp; the arm seems to have no vulnerable box and the fist is all hit box. Ive been using this a lot of force to stay in downback or bait them to jump/roll. You also have a huge window to react to their option I’m between the two mp’s there is a distance where this is not safe on whiff but there is ALSO a distance where you recover in time to dp the jump in if they try to jump over it. I’ve been using this last night and I’m going to put more time into it today. I’m practicing this on moving targets online rather than doing theory fighter with it. I just want to see how an opponent reacts to it, rather than myself.

I’ve been working almost exclusively on hiss defensive game so I’m sure there is cross application with what the offensive players find vs the defensive. Something to keep in mind

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

4

Some oki stuff I’ve been playing with:

You can also get the meaty shoulder off of MK shoulder ender, which does the same damage and has better pushback. In the cases where you can get the meaty HK shoulder, you can also get a meaty 2nd hit of seismo. This is particularly useful against characters that can punish the meaty shoulder with 3 frame DP, super, or jabs. I’ll usually use LK shoulder, then HP seismo to keep people full screen, then they have to get all the way back in. So generally, LP upper, s.LP, s.LP, c.MP xx M or L shoulder is my go to combo.

If you go for the meaty shoulder and they roll forward, you can meaty qcf+p or LP seismo after you whiff the shoulder. Both can be beat by invincible reversal though. If you know they’re going to roll forward, you can skip the HK shoulder and just charge a windup to lv2. This trades with reversal DP, 200 damage and full screen knockback to their ~160 damage + knockdown and is safe if they block.

I plan on playing around with some fly stuff on their wakeup as well. For those of you that aren’t aware, the drop attack from fly has a higher knocback if you input it at the apex of flight. It can be a low flight close to the ground, but you have to hit D just about when the jet noise stops before he falls. Not sure what he can combo off of this, anyone want to mess with it?

5

Sick find with the seismo to hit any forward rolls for the meaty shoulder, will definitely be utilising that! Will be good for the setups like after sweep actually, that’s gonna be pretty awesome actually. Meaty safe shoulder, if they roll, meaty seismo, ha!

@Joe - wait, there’s two Joe Lewis!? I have to say I’ve been pretty much been looking at offensive stuff, so yeah it would be good to mix it all together for sure! The things you’ve found are pretty awesome!

Here’s a few more setups, been writing it down:

After launcher:

LP DP x 2, whiff st.lk, lp seismo. Hits meaty, great way to setup something up. If they don’t quick rise, you’re still at frame advantage afterwards.

St.jab > LP Dp > empty jump. This is one crazy ass ambiguous setup, Lands randomly in front or behind, and you can go into cr.lk > st.mp chain for grown man damage.

Mix that up with LP DP > st.lk, jump HK. This adds to the mixup by keeping you on the same side and hitting a very late meaty HK. You can then mix that up with empty jump cr.lk.

St.mp x 3 > whiff HP > MP seismo. Another meaty setup just to change things up. Keeps the opp a decent distance away.

6

On my Laptop, Im auto logged in through Facebook.

I have Tapatalk on my iPad when I use that. Im the same person haha jsut two accounts. I’ll review the offensive stuff I actually found some better combos for Jack too so Ill post those(recrod them) eventually Ill even record the set ups so that people can have something to look at when they practice/

Through teaching, I learned that people understand better when they actually see. Nothing against how you just did this, but just want to make sure all ambiguity is non existent.

I also think your meaty setups work in zoning too. Ill try some stuff later when Im done rocking people in ranked. (Literally… ROCKING people)

7

To Samurai Drew:

I thought the mp target combo wasn’t cancel-able at any point? Or is this mp mp kara hp into ex?

Is this crossup jump after hp dp straight into seismo or c.lk xx seismo?

Great find! Now it might be useful! Also, you can release it at any time. does it only have armor when it’s fully charged, or through out the time it is being charged?

How does this work? Does mp knock down by itself? If so, carry on:P

My guess is one acc for pc, and one for phone. Don’t know why though:P
Edit: Ninjaed by Joe!

To Brahma:

Does this more damage than LP upper, FP xx shoulder?

Does this really trade with an invincible DP? How?

All in all, great set ups and tech guys! I love this thread already!

I watched archives of Ryan Hunter day 2 Jack lab work, and I heard that Joe Lewis talked about fly cancel, and I haven’t seen it be mentioned here yet? It seems you can cancel the recovery after a flight with no attack, by holding up when you land. If you hold up while you land, you can jump, block or attack as soon as you land (Not sure about how many frames of recovery). This is great for flying away and reacting to what the opponent is doing as while gliding and release an attack as soon as you land!

Also Joe Lewis talked about canceling the flight early, but I didn’t really understand this as Ryan didn’t test on stream. It was something like a jump into flight after landing a MP DP, and if the opponent reversal uppercuts, Jack will cancel flight early? Please explain more about this Joe!:smiley:

BTW: If anyone of you have the opportunity to upload some match footage using this tech, that would be awesome! I feel I am doing good myself, but we all have different takes on the character, and I get new ideas or learn something new every time I see another good Jack player!

8

@SimSim

I pretty much just mashed the EX piston after the second MP, looking back now and yeah it was a Kara HP.

For the HP DP empty jump, probably better to do cr.lk seismo, incase you mess up your timing. Can’t wait to use this one!

The armor on the charge mp seems to be through the whole animation from when you start up, which is pretty awesome.

And yeah the st.mp hits 3 times after a launcher, but the HP whiffs. It sends them about 2 character lengths away and knocks down but they’re likely to quick rise so you can do your meaty seismo :slight_smile:

@ Joe Lewis, looking forward to seeing your matches! I’ll try and record some of the stuff for you guys to see :slight_smile:

9

I dont know why it does this but if you do Flight mode low (the way I do it for run away) at them , and they uppercut, You will absorb the uppercut and then land and they are still in the air. Really weird.

10

Yeah this is a solid thread, reminds me of the Jack threads on TZ :slight_smile:

Joe, what setups in particular are you setting up MP[MP] on? You mean when a M seismo is guaranteed in a combo? or sjust the spacing for it?

Drew, I like the setups you have. For your combos though, try s.LP, s.LP, c.MP xx LP DP (320 off a raw launcher) instead of double DP (only 280 off a raw launcher) or s.LP xx LP DP for more damage, everything should work the same setup wise.

Anyhow, to SimSim, yes, LP DP, s.LP, s.LP, c.MP xx shoulder does more damage in most situations (501 off of jumpin HP, HP vs. 498 for HP xx dash, about 9-10 dmg more in general for longer combos). It’s also IMO more reliable since you have to be pretty much point blank for a close s.HP To do . The s.LP, s.LP, c.MP can whiff too at further range, but you can adjust by only doing 1 s.LP.

The 2 count windup only trades with Ryu’s LP DP, not the invincible ones, my bad. However, working off of Joe’s setup, I found this:
LK shoulder ender, s.MK,MP,[MP]. The LK shoulder puts them full screen, if they forward roll or get up in place, they pretty much have to block it. If they roll forward they get in range for an attack, but the s.MK,MP,[MP] part has armor. Only punishable with fast fullscreen moves because it has so much pushback… Still needs more testing, I didn’t see if they get up in place and backdash and some other stuff, but feel free to mess with it.

Flight stuff:
Not sure if holding U makes your landing recovery a little bit faster, you can already cancel the land animation with an attack. Anyhow,
I’m doing MP upper as an ender, then low flight (where he hovers just above the ground) If they try to invincible reversal, then the armor eats the hit and depending on the attack you can land and c.LP punish. If you use high fly (U on the way up ) then you can cross them up and DPs whiff, but you don’t get anything free AFAIK.

11

I posted videos.

12

Jack X has a Kara dp… I don’t know how viable it is but you can Kara his fierce into any special move so Kara seismo Kara dp etc. I post it on YouTube.

for those who don’t know I’m going to be posing stuff on my YouTube channel mrb1u whenever I find something new such as a combo or something or even new tech

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

13

What ive been starting to do is this:

In combos that create a hard knockdown and seismos that hit I whiff lp 3 times for the timing of the force block. So the set is

Siesmo(or a combo ender) lpx3, mp seismo: this forces them to block the siesmo. They will either get hit by both hits or the second. Keep in mind that this is off of a full screen pushback combo aka seismo or charge enders.

Off of a Triple A, it’s very important to mp seismo as a follow up that way you prevent the awkward range that players can roll. At to and to cant really do much about it except respect their wake up. This range exists in the mid range of medium seismo. From a training mode standpoint it exists at 4 squares between you and your opponent. Anything closer than that distance is a really bad range for jack.

I gotta look into the offensive side of things with jack. You guys are ahead of me in the offensive game

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

14

Joe:

It some times works as a fail safe for me, when I try to do close fierce into dp, and I turn out to be outside of the close fierce range: The far fierce comes out, but because I am buffering into dp, the fierce is canceled and I get lp dp instead. Not very useful, but an observation

First, what enders gives Jack hard knock down? Only sweep and crouching FP maybe?
Second, I am not sure if I understand this. Do you mean that the mp seismo will make force them to block if they roll, since you mention that this works if they are knocked full screen? Also, after anti airing with mp dp without seismo followup for combo, I have been trying to make the opponent block seismo on wakeup if they don’t roll, but they often seem to be able to jump on wakeup. This seems to be because they wake up in between the two hits of the seismo, so I can’t see how they either get hit by both or second hits and no possibility of free jump at wakeup? Am I mistaken?

I took the time to note down all that has been mentioned so far in this thread. Maybe update opening post or something? Please correct me if I have misunderstood something, or if something is unclear!

Note: Videos are under the description of the setup it is showing.
[KD]=Knockdown

Seismo setups:
-Seismo [ hits grounded] [KD] > forward dash > Same strength seismo [details=Spoiler][media=youtube]7k8pm_LiQXI[/media][/details]
-Lp dp > HP dp [KD] > jump over >c.lk xx lp seismo
-lk/mk/hk tackle [KD] > hp/mp/lp seismo (second hit is meaty)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Q78FyyhRlpw[/media]

-Alioune trap (e.g hk tackle > hk tackle) [opponent rolls] > lp seismo (mp seismo if done from mk tackle [KD] > mk tackle?)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]rWmCvapbTkw[/media]

-lp dp > lp dp >lk [whiff] > lp seismo
-Launcher [other character] > target: mpx3 [hit] hp [whiff] > mp seismo
-Seismo/tackle > lpx3/lpx1 [whiff] >seismo (version depends on pre seismo/tackle version)- Did I get it right Joe?

Spoiler

[media=youtube]rXYKvhAf9Zw[/media]

Tackle setups:
-Alioune trap: Hk tackle/mk tackle/sweep > hk tackle

Spoiler

[media=youtube]omD4sH7Dvt4[/media]

Various setups:
-Hk tackle/mp dp > forward jump hk (good safe jump)
-Lp dp > HP dp [KD] > jump over >c.lk xx lp dp/target: mpx3
-[situation where oponent will have to block medium/hp seismo] mp>charge mp[full screen punch] (invurnerable to reversals)

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Qa8EUP_fizU[/media]

-Alioune trap (e.g hk tackle > hk tackle) [opponent rolls] > gigaton punch
-Hk tackle > [predict roll] > charge gigaton punch to ex
-Launcher [other character] > jab xx lp dp >empty forward jump (ambigous xup or not)
-lp dp > lk [KD] > forward jump Hk (deep same side meaty)/forward empty jump c.lk
-lk tackle [KD] > target: mk mp mp charge (If oponent rolls: wakes up into armored attack)

Other technology:
-target: mk mp mp [charge] has armor during the whole charge
-lk chains to close mp from almost close range
-c.lp XX target: far mp mp is a true blockstring
-Jack can kara his hp into all secial moves
-target mpx3 [kara] hp xx ex gigaton comboes
-drop attack from fly knocks oponent up higher if done at apex of flight. Hit D just about when the jet noise stops before he falls.
-flight done low to the ground (e.g after mp dp) will cancel itself sometimes when the opponent uppercuts.
-You can cancel landing frames of flight with an attack (Also with jump if you hold up). Not sure if holding up during flight makes it cancel even faster.

15

I’ll make some videos for anti roll setups… I have a lot of tech setups and force block setups. They are hard to do, but they are worth learning

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

16

Finally subscribed to you:P Great to have the setups on videos! Much easier to understand than just the writing itself! Maybe you will illustrate most of the setups I listed?

17

Ok, the problem I’m having with the empty jump setup is people aren’t quick standing this most of the time, pretty annoying. I found a way to combat this, if you do dash x 2, then empty jump cr.lk, it will work against people who are just holding down back. This still makes it difficult to roll out and beats button presses.

18

What about jump over, then react to quick rise with c.lk or jump back over if he does not quick rise and do the same mixup there?

19

lol definitely this is exactly what I’m thinking could be your best option here, because you can easily see they’re quick rising as your jumping over! Good thinking and that’s a great little bonus to have options on both wake ups!

One thing about doing this setup though is you don’t change the general roll direction if they don’t quick rise, will need to test this in matches to see if people roll out…

Another option is to do jump over cr.lk, and if they don’t quick rise, you get a nice meaty neutral jump HK setup which I don’t expect to get rolled out of because you’ve changed sides, hmm

Something else to add to the list though, if the opponent does quick rise you can empty jump and do a really sweet to the chops instant overhead j.hk, or if you like to counter both, you can do empty jump cr.lk > st.mp (the mp doesn’t come out if they don’t quick rise, but hits if they do) which means if they quick rise you get cr.lk. st.mp and if they don’t the timing sets you up perfectly for j.hk overhead which hits so meaty it must give you some extra frame advantage?

I think we’re pretty safe on the empty jump setups now then surely? :slight_smile:

20

Not sure if this is mentioned/known. For what it’s worth, Jack has a viable hit confirm from cr.lk > [mp, mp, mp ~ hp] target combo. You can end it with a hk instead of a hp to go into launcher. It’s a true blockstring until the third mp, in which case that’s enough time to confirm and finish the combo.

From a bit further range, you can firm into far st.mp off of cr.lp/lk and if it connects go into st.hk. On block, just cancel into the second hit of mp.

Just a couple safe/viable hitconfirms into launcher. Nothing big but gives his cr.lk solid application in close range.