I've covered wars y'know - Frank West thread

[Cee_Dizzy]

This is how I feel when I run through an entire team with level 5 Frank.

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I feel so bad

[Blue_Lightning]

Really? I feel awesome doing that.

[FRANK_WEST]

I play Frank on point as well.

Frank A Dante Y Akuma B

[Gangie]

[From the How Do You Level Up Frank? thread. I thought it would be nice to post here]

(On early-level Frank)

I actually just started using the camera offensively since I saw [FRANK WEST] doing it the other day. I’m so mad I didn’t come up with it myself.
I like to use it in the air combined with Arthur’s daggers to completely halt their aerial approach and deal some good chip damage. Works wonders to flat out stop approaches for a little while, and it advances Frank’s surprisingly passable camp game. Sometimes, it will even get me to Level 2; which is great because of the health boost, and having that roll really helps.

I’ve KO’d a few characters who cannot easily retaliate under fire from Frank’s object throws, hammer throws, and assist buddies; mostly from chip. If they’re stubborn enough to try and approach, I still have options such as the camera, crouching heavy, jumping medium, and possibly even a roll.

FRANK WEST is right about a lot of things, but I was unaware of the benefits of being on point. Given the opportunity to tag out, your point character can potentially recover well over half health, giving Frank an even longer lifespan beyond level-up health bonuses, a few more chances to make it big without having to possibly dip into your anchor, and a great assist for everyone else. I think that’s really cool.

Frank is so much fun from beginning to end.

[evillee]

Here’s something I had posted in the team building thread a month or two ago I’m moving it here since it seems to be relevant to the current discussion:

Here’s a bit of what I do with Frank as lower levels. Snapshot has a deceptively large and invisible hitbox so I do use it from a distance. Especially since landing 5 will get Frank to level 2 without having to combo. That is something I don’t really see people exploiting. Other than that, his j.S, j.M, and his j.dh are pretty good as far as the air goes. I’ve even been able to convert air to air j.Ms into combos. On the ground I tend to either look for st.M, cr.M, or cr.H to start combos and that’s not considering help from my assists. Another important bit of strategy to remember is to go for snapshots at lower levels if you have an assist that hits multiple times and are unable to get a full combo from it.

[ES_Curse]

umm not sure if serious. Frank gets a 10% damage boost for being in level 5. Go for it. I have combos that get point frank from level 1 to 5 so I go for em :3

[S]I thought that too. Then I checked SRK’s guide and I saw that levels 4 and 5 do the same amount of damage on all attacks. While the blue flash is awesome, it’s only a cosmetic change. If there was a damage increase, the weapons Frank pulls out would change. Plus, it gives an extra value for going to level 5. Even if the damage boost was there, you have to admit that the health bonus would outweigh the extra 10% health. As far as I know, the only other characters that can heal mid-match are Shuma (by command throw) and Phoenix (must die with 5 bars). That puts Frank at a huge advantage because he has the most practical health bounus in the game, which can be accessed mid-combo. Though, I will hit the training room myself to get down the health gains and differences between levels 4 and 5. [/S]EDIT: Read next post.

[ES_Curse]

Apologies to everyone who believed me. Tested everything I mentioned. The health boost is an astounding…5%. For each level. (Why is it even in there? What effect does 5% per level have?) There is actually a 10% damage boost at level 5. Never really noticed it, since usually the weapons change on damage increase. Then again, I checked the guide that took several weeks to give frame data for the existing characters…:bluu:

[FRANK_WEST]

5% per level plus levleing up 4 times = 20% which turns a 1050 char into a 1.2k char…which is obv a big deal lol.

[Blue_Lightning]

I feel terrible for only today finding out about the health boost, lol…

[Zansam]

I really wouldn’t recommend making too much of a habit out of blockstring >> snapshot + assists. Whether it’s a well placed push block, an incorrectly timed assist, whatever, there’s ways it can turn into a punishment. Not to mention the reward is at best a combo and at worse just a 1 hit snapshot. Risk/reward on a regular basis doesn’t strike me as high.

[FRANK_WEST]

I really wouldn’t recommend making too much of a habit out of blockstring >> snapshot + assists. Whether it’s a well placed push block, an incorrectly timed assist, whatever, there’s ways it can turn into a punishment.** Not to mention the reward is at best a combo and at worse just a 1 hit snapshot. Risk/reward on a regular basis doesn’t strike me as high**.

Seeing as about 90% of the cast can’t punish it in anyway without using a super, and it gives you free pressure (if weasol shot is blocked you have multiple options to follow up with pressure).

Nothing anyone does is 100% safe 100% of the time, obv you shouldnt continue to do the same thing over and over no matter what it is. Its definitlely not a bad thing to finish up block stings with seeing as frank has no way to stay safe off any ground series…

Reward: Get Lv5 (atleast with my team/tech i get lv5 off any hit unless i air throw with exactly 1 bar, if i have 1.2 bars i can get to 2 bars for THC and lv5 off forward air/ground throws.)
Risk: Get Super’d (by only a few characters who have supers that start up fast enough before the assists hit), 350k damage at best???

Seems worth it to me. And like i said if i use tatsu, snapshot blockstrings straight into tatsu…therefore theres no way i could possibly be punished unless i call assist/snapshot long after i’ve been pushblocked.

Again not saying its unstoppable, but its definitely a tool that the character can use against alot of characters/pretty much every character/lv1’s frank only real way to main tain pressure lol.

Infact to be 100% honest, if you aren’t using snapshot assist im pretty sure you dont even have a way to finish a ground series as Lv1 and stay safe. ToSL isn’t safe at all at Lv1, slide isnt, S isnt, zombies dont start up fast enough. Theres really no reason not to do this depending on what assists you have available, and i have seen GREAT success with it and have RARELY been punished for it. Infact i dont think i’ve ever been punished for lmhcall weasolshot snapshot, and lmhcalltatsusnapshot isnt even punishable because like i said the snapshot blockstings into the tatsu. I could get punished if i snapshotted after they pushblocked…but thats a bad move by me, not a great move by the opponent.

[FRANK_WEST]

Twitch

Some matches of me on optionselect, i make mistakes like any player but hopefully you guys enjoy the play. I start playing at 22 minutes in.

ALSO the FRANK WEST SWAG combo starts at 34mins its definitely the best solo frank combo. Do not mind the ground series, you can change that into anythinga nd still do the combo.

[Blue_Lightning]

One day I’m gonna do that in a real fight too! I already do it about 4 times out of 5 in training mode so I need to go for the Swag sometime =D

[Zansam]

Plenty of characters have frame 1 invincible hypers and/or fast ones to tear through that setup, and if you don’t space it properly you can get thrown out of it as well. I’m not saying it’s bad (it’s pretty creative in fact), but there’s a lot of setups that are similar that when done improperly can blow up in your face (Cap’s Charging star + sent drones to cover the unsafeness for example). Plus doing them too much puts them in muscle memory/forms habits where you may do it improperly. Again, not “never should be done” but more “done in moderation” in my opinion. Plus there’s options like calling the assist earlier in the blockstring and finishing it with a zombie toss so that the assist frame traps the end of the string then the zombie puts you at advantage. Just a thought.

As for safe level 1 Franks, I -think- Tools L is -1 in level 1 believe it or not (-4 in level 3 and a sexy +5 in 4/5). that suffers from the same problem to an even worse degree though that a pushblock leaves you painfully unsafe.

[FRANK_WEST]

Plenty of characters have frame 1 invincible hypers and/or fast ones to tear through that setup, and if you don’t space it properly you can get thrown out of it as well. I’m not saying it’s bad (it’s pretty creative in fact), but there’s a lot of setups that are similar that when done improperly can blow up in your face (Cap’s Charging star + sent drones to cover the unsafeness for example). Plus doing them too much puts them in muscle memory/forms habits where you may do it improperly. Again, not “never should be done” but more “done in moderation” in my opinion. Plus there’s options like calling the assist earlier in the blockstring and finishing it with a zombie toss so that the assist frame traps the end of the string then the zombie puts you at advantage. Just a thought.

As for safe level 1 Franks, I -think- Tools L is -1 in level 1 believe it or not (-4 in level 3 and a sexy +5 in 4/5). that suffers from the same problem to an even worse degree though that a pushblock leaves you painfully unsafe.

I’ve never been grabbed for doing a block string into an assist.

Im almost 100% sure that ToSL in Lv1 is -2, which is not safe seeing as it pulls people toward you, You can always be grabbed.

The difference between cap charging star/drones is that we arent doing random block strings from midscreen like Cap does charging stars. You can def mix it up, but im telling y ou its not nearly unsafe as you think.

I personally time it pretty tight so that even dormammu cant do supers inbetween (3frame Chatoic Flame). So it would absolutely have to be a frame 1 invincible hyper. And most characters do not have one of those, only one i can think of off the top of my head is spencer. I think Morrigan has one too? Hulk i guess…even tho im pretty sure you would recover from snapshot before gamma crush would hit you.

Tbh i dont really care if anyone else uses it i know im gonna keep using it as the focus of my offensive pressure because it works for me against decent players and until i see another Frank West playing (offline) against decent players doing something better, im pretty sure this is the best thing i can do.

[Zansam]

there’s a sizeable number of level 1 hypers I am positive are frame one invincible (X-23, Haggar, Akuma, Viewtiful Joe, Hulk, Spencer, Trial PW, Phoenix, Thor), and a good brunt of the cast who I’d have to double check but I think also have frame 1 (C viper, Cap, Iron Fist, Jill, MODOK, Morrigan, Ryu, Spider Man, Skrull). It’s more common than you’d think, and given that you’re point blank it even opens up options like Mighty Punish or command throws depending on hitbox.

[evillee]

I’m think Hawkeye’s super scattered shot hyper comes out even if he gets hit. Not sure.

[Blue_Lightning]

Super Scattered Shot comes out instantly, yes, no stopping him once the flash takes place.

[FRANK_WEST]

Lol whatever
Like i said, i have yet to be punished for it and i play plenty of high level players. I can make it safe with multiple variations or mix it up with multiple variations.
So i’m gonna continue,
and to people trying to improve their frank i’d try this. Because if you don’t you have no way to do block strings, or really have any pressure at all.

Just remembered why i dont post on character forums lol.

[Unreal]

I’m back
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