You can create unbreakable situations that don’t rely on your opponent guessing after you’ve punished. Normals thata re bad in nuetrl situatuions but great for punishing things like whiffed DPs that put them in lockout would only do wonders to help curtail certain shitthead strats in the game.
Anytime a game creates snowball set ups I feel I would rather patches come than wait it out. You can buff characters to help adjust the neutral, but unless you’re giving everyone tools to get out of vortexes without taking super big risks, fighting games should really push to patch those out. The marvel mentality I hear is if everything is broken it’s fair…and I just think that’s a terrible logic. If there aren’t answers, allowing tech to evolve so everyone has BS isn’t good. On the flipside the game should be given time to breathe to avoid an MK scenario with most things. Really games should declare what they want that character to do and really focus patches around allowing that to define the character unless new tech really presents a cool shift. If your zoner suddenly dominates up close…you should probably fix that.
even Chess has been patched over the centuries, but something to remember is that while sports and games like chess naturally have a much longer time to grow and evolve, fighting games by design only last a couple of years in the spotlight, then fade to a small base and for the most part don’t get that many new players after the game passes it’s peak, so any patches have to be made asap to get the people with the purse strings to pay for that stuff. To put into perspective take Ultimate Marval vs Capcom 3. In our little corner of the gaming Universe it is the highest rated game with the most hype. More stream views than most other games combined. Sold like shit. SFxT sold more copies and is ignored by streams. But as much as some tweaks need to be made that game, it didn’t sell well enough to pay for an update
The way the game is setup from a combo perspective - so much damage can be ‘deterred’ with practice - that - while I hesitate to say the characters are all the same - from a “comparative” stand point and tiering stand point - there just won’t be a ‘huge gap’.
Typical things that lead to a huge disparity in character balance just don’t hold as much water here. Sagat’s c.Fp from CvS2? Stand alone attacks just don’t “hurt” enough to change tiering. Extreme damage and ToD? ALL breakable. Even doing something like hk x dp->juggle - doesn’t lead to significant damage from a tiering standpoint - and everyone can do it anyways haha. There is controlling space - no one TOUCHES Glacius in this regard, comments about his lack of a dash are overblown - he controls so much space that he is constantly generating pressure, even jumping forward with him puts his opponent in a ‘guessing’ stand point. That in itself is a huge advantage, and having an unblockable projectile can expand that even further. It doesn’t ‘break’ him, but its one of the few true ‘bonuses’ in the game. Sadira will fade over time - she’s a scrub killer. I think Saberwolf has a chance to succeed long term with his mixups, but there really just isn’t enough of a different between the rest of the cast - IMO - for anything to be OP or UP. I’m pretty confident that ‘time’ will reveal this as tournaments will be won early on with Glacius & Saberwolf, and later on, by pretty much the whole cast. The game just needs time to breathe.
- :bluu:
Actually, each animation is different depending on the strength, top level players can see the difference.
Yup, not only does the attack look different but the particles have a different shape as well.
The game has just came out and the metagame is still in a newborn state. People are going to find ways to break the game yet, and things will be discovered to counter those broken things. The metagame needs a chance to evolve. Chess was an entirely different game from when it was first played in the 1500’s because Chess Theory has evolved significantly over the course of the past century. The real question is whether or not the game is still fun after people get better at it. Banning Akuma in ST was a good move in the long run because otherwise it would just become nothing but Akuma vs Akuma matches (although AE 2012 is scarily close to that). There’s a good reason Capcom takes their sweet time fixing their games despite all the shit they get for it. When any potential problems are found in the game Capcom can determine if the game is inherently better or worse without them. As much as I love Skullgirls Mike Z needs to slow the fuck down with the patching cycle (as far as gameplay related patches go, patches that fix crashes and whatnot are fine). It’s partially a symptom of looking at games like Starcraft and LOL which get rebalanced constantly and people complaining about fighting games not being like that. I think Killer Instinct is going to suffer from this constant patching because being a first-party game as well as the distribution model are gears more towards that. It’s a shame really because Killer Instinct as it is now has the potential still to evolve into something truly beautiful outside of the developer’s intentions.
As much as people should adapt to their problems, the issue is that all voices will be heard nobody what matter. Often times companies make nerf just to sasify the larger demography so that customers continue to play the game that they want. This is why unnecessary nerfs kind of happens, it’s just there to make people happy regardless if it damages the game.
The best thing KI community should do is continue to make informative videos, and educate people how to beat their problems.
This is unpopular but I tend to believe that if one doesn’t place at tournaments or isn’t high ranked (Online play is the future imo) then one shouldn’t be able to speak on various changes or nerfs. However, there are a variety of flaws with this thinking, I will admit that.
Nope, I agree with you. However, I’m not too sure saying high ranked online players have a saying in the game’s balance because at this moment high ranked online players consists almost solely of Mexican kids playing Akuma. (Also before you call me out on it, yes I am aware it’s entirely my own fault this is the case.)
I think developers should make a “casual” fighting game pandering to every bitch and demand of scrubs out there so we can get it over with. Maybe KI will have to be this sacrificial game, I apologize in advance to anyone who has any plans of playing Killer Instinct competitively. No way Microsoft would just allow it to be a competitive niche game.
You don’t have to apologize. I saw long in advance before a lot of other people stuck up in console wars that this game had the chance to be the game that other games are not. Spends that extra time making sure you get strong netcode out the gate, get frame data in the game, get hit boxes in the game, make button check free button configurations and a real tutorial mode that teaches people how to play the game and fighting games in general (not just outdated and impractical combos). The game that takes real time to look at things before fixing them.
The development team has a solid amount of people who have placed very highly in tournaments in the past or generally have a strong intuition for the meta of fighting games. With things like the dojo/tutorial mode that they can constantly update, they can use the dojo to show people how to get around issues rather than patching them like other games. Then just attach it to things like achievements which all of the casual guys treat like gold and you got it made in the new age I say.
Skullgirls already made the sacrifice. It was trying to be what this game was but failed due to lack of marketing and money which forced them to beckon on every request to damage control the game. This game won’t need that and has shown people from the beginning that they plan to be in favor of being a competitive game for competitive gamers. If it was going to be a game to sell directly to casuals they would have just started throwing in ultimates/no mercies/stage fatalities and just sell you shitty gameplay and a lack of focus on tournament meaningful balance. They could just do that if they wanted to cash in for a couple months and dip out.
I remember back when I played 3s competitively and what people told me when I initially complained about chun…"deal with it"they would say and ever since then I never complained about it. I think that unless there is some game breaking glitch or some terrible oversight in balance…all players should always adapt.
I just played my first strong Sadira today(I play Jago). I am no where near good so I definitely don’t want a nerf or anything but omg wow. She was in the Air the entire match and I couldn’t think of anything to do besides jumping M Punch for small damage. Also I faced kinetic’s Glacius today. That didn’t go over well at all but I play so few Glacius Online he was doing things I have never saw before.
Just a random comment about my killer day.
There’s far too much input leniency in this games for Autos and Specials
I get screwed by Negative Edge while using Sabrewulf all the time online, and screwed while playing online just because I press a button more than once and it gives me an auto I didn’t ask for
I’ve definitely had some issues with Glacius as well when I mean to press B+FP or F+MP, from crouch, and I’ll get a hail or shatter. But I just have to work on my execution.
Sabrewulf is th worst character in the game
All he has is online lag based gimmicks.
The only legit tactic he has is overpower but that’s near useless since everyone jumps around a lot and everyone can keep you mid/full screen so they can just poke you out or get a ranom hit and combo, knock you back across the screen and do it all over again.
Sabrewulf has no defensive options besides Shadow Eclipse, and you eat combo if it gets blocked and you don’t have instinct or if it whiffs.
Ragged edge is easily Shadow Countered as is any normal cancelled into hamstring or jumping slash, this can easily be done on reaction
When Sabrewulf is in the corner, he has no answers vs Orchid, who can pressure him infinitely, because her pressure doesn’t give you room to dash out, and all attempts at Shadow Eclipse can be easily baited since Orchid is +18973281947893892 frames during rekka
Sabrewulf can’t punish jump back Jago tactics unless he has meter
His combos do terrible damage compared to the rest of the cast, unless he has instinct.
Sabrewulf can generally get 40% off of a punish, while the rest of the cast gets around 55-60%, unless he’s in instinct
If he has only online lag based gimmicks, how come Justin Wong hasn’t lost at a tourney with him yet? How come the finals at APEX was a Sabrewulf mirror match?
Sounds like you need to just quit crying and learn how to play against him.
You’re not winning this one Luna. Too much evidence points to Sabrewulf being one of the best. Time to adapt.
The people he plays don’t know the matchup.
This situation is a lot like people who’d complain about Blanka, Vanilla Sentinel, and BBCT Tager, except not even the pros are smart enough to learn the matchup this time.
Oh so now the excuse goes from losing because “he only has online tactics” to losing because “he doesn’t know the matchup.”
Gotcha.