Is Sonic hot garbage?

you know I haven’t faced sonichuman or omfg…you guys care for a match?

Okay sorry, have to put the brakes on this. Ike demolishes Sonic, flat out. Reason being: Sonic has nothing that outprioritizes Ike’s moves. Jab combo alone has more priority than practically ALL of Sonic’s entire moveset. No really, it does. You can AAA through a Down Smash. You can AAA through a Spin Attack. You can trade with Sonic’s AAA and it will just push both fighters back (and most times allow Ike to get his AAA right after it), AAA through F-Tilt, and so on.

Sonic can’t stop Quick Draw, he can’t stop Aether when he tries to go aerial, and he has to work hard for a kill on one of the game’s heavier characters when all Ike has to do is swat him once with U-Tilt, F-Tilt, AAA at high percents, Down Throw at high percents and it’s done. All the Ike has to do is play patiently and he will outpower, outspace and outfight Sonic almost every time.

Again, sorry to break into the discussion…but Sonic being even close to having advantage on Ike is just…preposterous. It’s more like 7/3 Ike, maybe even 8/2 Ike.

eh? our experiences are different as hell. I have a friend that mains Ike that plays him pretty well IMO. U-tilt and F-tilt are moves I’ve overlooked, but in certain situations, U-smash is just better overall to use than U-tilt. I don’t fear Aether much since it’s not a kill move. I haven’t had serious problems with Quick Draw (this is his B-right?) especially since it has lag at the end. Also, sometimes Quick Draw kills IKE. if he tries to recover with it, just take the hit and DI… this will cause Ike to miss the ledge. shield dashing beats that out… if you don’t wanna shield then you could also B-down for a tie, B-neutral to make them force their hand, or jump up and D-air him. I can’t remember if it was a legitamite punish, but I think that you can actually shield it then F-smash immediately after for a clean hit. as for working hard to kill Ike, it’s actually not that hard, especially if you land a lot of grabs. I agree about the jab though, that’s seriously gotta be Ike’s most troublesome move. Lots of times, just getting close to Ike is hell because jab comes out before anything else. if he lands that, no matter what % Sonic is at, he’s in danger. but I’ve found that the less jabs you get hit by, the easier that entire match is.

despite all of this though, I’ve managed to make it out on top every single time. Maybe it’s time for me to play a new Ike

nah. you can play Sonichuman I guess, but with me… what’s the point. I don’t really like you. if SRK holds another one of those online tourneys and you happen to be in it and we go up against each other, I’ll pick Sonic vs you if you want… but other than that I don’t really think I’d like to play you

No hes not garbage but he aint top

My title sums it up. Sonic is no where near garbage and has some great gimmicks. I played alot of matches with friends and randoms C3 so the results I have found are solid. I don’t own a wii put Ive been playing alot.

First off the gimmicks:

And Id rather post this here then to a bunch of Smash Brother Forum children.

Sonic Can cancel his down spike. The trick is to use the up +B spring move, and then from max height do his down spike. It takes a whole to get used to but he can cancel no matter what, block, hit, or miss , it can all be cancel as long as you come from MAX JUMP FROM THE SPRING STATE (caps for serious business).

Sonic is about spacing because he has some really horrible match ups.

Bad Much ups:Ike, Marth, Snake, etc top tiers… There are many more and this game has a big problem with PRIORITY of moves.

His running roll is what its all about and from mid distance. and then placing a nice smash attack. I’m sure you all figured this but with this “spacing of his and speed” sonic can allow himself to never get hit. Making him the ideal turtler character.

Crossing up… Sonic normal foward + A when hes backwords in the air is a sure knockout move at 60+ percent against most characters. Its a nice move to mix people up when (must be short) jumping over them.

This topic should be about all his Hot gimmicks and how to play him. Hes no where near top but if played smart he can sure battle it out.

Word up to my Sonic Lovers.

U-Tilt is almost always a better solution for Ike than U-Smash, as it comes out MUCH faster and kills almost as efficiently. Good Ike players use the Quick Draw as a form of fast movement rather than an attack most times, although if Sonic charges up Spin Dash the Quick Draw can be used to stuff it as QD beats Spin Dash.

By using short bursts of Quick Draw Ike can get right into Sonic’s face and use AAA or U-Tilt. Aether racks up damage if Sonic tries to attack from the air with the dive kick, and even shuts down using the springboard to edgeguard when used at the right time.

Besides that, it’s a simple matter of using Ike’s superior range, priority and power to win.

:rofl::rofl:

Gonna have to disagree here. Ike, in the hands of an equally skilled player should destroy Sonic every single time, provided items are off and the stage is neutral.

Every single thing you listed that Ike has is all you need to beat Sonic. U-tilt and F-tilt stuff everything Sonic does, too. Ike’s jab combo beasts Sonic, and Ike can just counter with his down+B, F-tilt or forward+B every single time you try a Sonic B attack. Ike just has massive priority over Sonic’s entire moveset.

As for Wolf, the strategy you listed was basically to play keepaway. This would be all fine and good, as Sonic is the fastest running char in the game, but then how exactly do you propose you BEAT Wolf? Playing keepaway with no projectile = what, exactly? How are you going to damage Wolf playing keepaway? Wolf actually HAS a projectile, he doesn’t have to be close to damage you. Sonic is a close up fighter, if he’s running from Wolf the entire fight, he’s just gonna eat damage. And it’s incredibly hard to keep Wolf away from you when you have to A: Stay out of the air and B: Dodge laser spam. Wolf also outprioritizes all of Sonic’s move, though not as badly as Ike does. A good Wolf should own a good Sonic as well.

And I don’t really understand you saying Sonic’s f-smash has some “nice range”. Sonic’s f-smash has one of the WORST ranges in the entire game…

And btw, Sonic is one of the worst edge-guarders in this game. Don’t feel bad about your lack of ability to edge guard with him. NO ONE is good at edge guarding with him…

Sonic’s strengths lie in his speed and ability to get to those good items. With all items-on, Sonic is mid to high tier, depending on the spawn of the items. With items off, Sonic by himself is low tier, maybe pressing into lower mid tier.

^_-;

I haven’t fought a good sonic yet.
I main ROB!!!

How does this match up fare?

sorta like melee Fox?

I just got brawl, how you unlock sonic?

I had a big post typed out to both your response and Galatic’s response… but it’s worthless. Experiences are too different, and I don’t know which one I can trust more. though I’ve been meaning to, I haven’t played anyone from here. Where do you live? if you play Ike, maybe we could play so you can show me what you mean

I’m gonna stop talking about what I think about character matchups though because apparently people play these chars very differently from what I see and some of the things people say here don’t match up with what I’ve actually seen (ex. I’ve seen Sonic’s B-down tie with Quick Draw before). I’ll post more on what he’s able to do instead of how he plays vs others.

some of the things you’ve said sound good though, like countering Sonic’s B moves. I’d talk more about it, but even though I’m good, my experience is kinda limited… I don’t play too many people. btw, when I said that Sonic’s F-smash has nice range, I didn’t mean that it was an Ike/Marth/Lucario-esque attack; I just meant that the way the attack is really helps him out. As for the item thing… I don’t know where everyone gets that from and I still don’t agree with it. Sonic may be really good with items on, but I haven’t played since I played classic mode. I’ve managed to beat people, including people who use chars better than Sonic and people who actually play the game better than I do.

this is why I don’t want to play you; you’re pathetic. I knew your reply would be something immature and mocking before I even typed my reply. If you take a good look, you’ll realize that I didn’t even say I don’t want to play you; I said I don’t like you. why would I play casuals with someone I don’t like.

I really hope your Sonic isn’t this predictable :tup:

So either you’re better than you’re giving yourself credit for or the people you’re playing against just really aren’t very good.

Sonic vs Ike on a stage like Final Destination, all skills being equal between the two players controlling them, should rarely if ever win that matchup. For such a fast character Sonic is incredibly easy to read.

And Sonic owns in Items On because he can get to the good items (Fan, Ray gun, Pokeball, Assist, Tomato/Heart, star, etc) and the Smash ball quicker than anyone else, and Sonic’s Final Smash is probably the best in the game. In 4 play FFA, if you get Sonic’s Final Smash you’re almost guaranteed to wipe the stage clean and get at LEAST 3 kills provided you don’t suck.

^_-;

I live in Phoenix, AZ. If you happen to live close enough for decent games, we can go a few.

I already said I owe you a match in the game but right now i’m running on borrowed internet(I’m using someone’s downstairs wireless that doesn’t really have a reliable connection) so I have to wait till we get our internet fixed before i start fighting anyone who’s not on my coast…Which is the East coast. So if you’re on the east coast then fo sho…the hedgehog will be glad to meet you on the battle field but if not…and you still wanna go at it…I’m warning you with the possibility of lag.

face palmssigh…aight…sorry to say this Omfg…but i do in fact believe it is time for you to fight a new ike…go fight emblem lord and then come back…lol.

Though i don’t disagree with the point that Ike beats sonic a majority of the time…the many matches that I’ve played so far against EL’s Ike were some tough times…however I did say that even though it was really a tough match…I don’t think it’s THAT bad…I believe there’s a way to make the matches played at least 6/4 Ike if the sonic player knew exactly how to play that match. He’d have to draw that shit out LOONNNG as hell though and have to deal with when Ike gets fed up…he’s coming for you with forward b. It’d take A LOT of work…but I don’t think the match up is no where near as bad as sonic vs. metaknight. The thing is with that match is that sonic can run all over the place but if you’re not being cautious 80% of the time you will get fucked up by running into a random tilt or something…that’s mostly because at first my sonic was complete rush down and now i see that’s not the complete and proper way to play him. A good sonic knows when a situation isn’t favorable for him and will back off for a moment to take a breather which I believe most people have started discovering for themselves. There’s only a few characters you can just run up on all day without fear…Bowser i feel being one of them if your mixup game is nice and ganondorf to a certain degree.

Sonic vs. Rob isn’t that bad of a match up on sonic’s end…but that’s just based upon my experience with fighting Ken’s ROB.

Oh and Ice climber’s stage is reeeeally bad I feel for sonic…He can’t use his speed fully on the stage…another stage that he seems to have problems on is the Metroid brinstar stage from melee because of of the middle that sometimes stops sonic in mid run…Pokemon battle stadium 1 also has that problem on the right corner sometimes when it’s morphed into one of the other stages. If sonic can’t run freely then his effectiveness is cut down by at least 20-30% I feel so keep these things in mind. If there’s any other stages i’m forgetting besides the Hanenbow stage then please post it.

Edit:

For my own reasons…statements like Sonic is only good with items on just urks the heck out of me…especially when I’m winning matches with him regardless of whether they’re on or not. Probably because i feel like i’m taking it personally when someone is like ‘you only won because of items and I just go’ …>(…TURN EM OFF THEN. It’s sort of like saying my sonic isn’t winning on his own merit when really I feel Items don’t save him…the final smash isn’t guranteed to go to sonic even if he gets there first. I even remember a time I was fighting someone online and there wasn’t even an opportunity to get the smash ball because we couldn’t knock each other away from the vicinity of it and it just went away. Most of the time when I’m playing sonic I’m waiting for the other person to go for the smash ball…I don’t go for it right out because that can lead to people getting smacked…which is what I do =D.

shit. that’s on the other side of the country… I’m in Alabama and get unfavorable lag with a guy i know in LOUISIANA…

if what everyone here is saying is right, by that I can assume that I haven’t fought a good Ike. I’ve done Final Destination (in fact, I like to pick that stage no matter what disadvantage comes with it) vs Ike, Wolf, etc. and only said what I saw. but hey, if it’s wrong… then cool, I wanna see otherwise. I’m not trying to set my word into unbreakable law or anything, I’m just trying to figure shit out. however… I still don’t think it’s items that make Sonic what he is

thought you said he played Marth?

I don’t recall saying that…but i’m sure he does. In fact I don’t think Emblem has put marth up against me neither have I fought many marths at all…don’t know if that’s a god send or not but I should probably get the experience anyway. All this talk I hear about The Damned’s Snake has me interested and I’d like to grab some matches with him if I could once i’m done with the other matches I have to take care of on my plate when my net gets back.

Emblem Lord plays Marth and Ike, for the record.

Yes I figured as much…with a name like that? He’s gotta represent doesn’t he?

I’m sure people have already pointed out Sonic’s horribad edgeguarding skills, right? One thing I did instead of pursuing was much, much more effective. Taunting at every opportunity with Sonic can be devastating to the opponent’s psyche. As his Toon Link got up to the higher 100%s in damage I fitted a taunt or two in every time he was knocked off and his game became stupider and stupider with each “YOU’RE TOO SLOW!”

If you know this’ll get to your opponent give it a try. It’s always fun to dick around in this game and what better of a character to do it with than Sonic? It’s even in his character!

you know, that’s strange. I had the idea to do the EXACT SAME THING. In fact, for a time, I did just that. I dunno about all that stuff about it affecting people’s psyches, but it was fun as hell.

btw, hopping off opponents can help with Sonic’s edge guarding. in fact, even making them think you’re about to hop on them can help.

wow, I must’ve sucked a while ago. I understand what you mean about using D-throw to speed trap. I use that all the time now, it’s pretty good. I still like dashing U-smash though

edit: about 4 days ago, friend of mine found a weird sonic tactic. Apparently, you can D-air and spring immediately with very little lag… and that makes catching Sonic a bitch. It makes fighting him even harder if you have a high %. It’s by no means a very good tactic, but it can be confusing as hell sometimes