Yeah, it’s kind of silly. I really wonder why so many people bother asking and caring so much about what they think the tier list will be like. Look at Street Fighter IV. Someone like Dhalsim is low on the tier list but he has almost completely even match-ups. Doesn’t make him a bad character.
I’ve been saying this shit for years. Pick the character you’re best with, or the one you have most fun with. Preferably both are the same character.
Really, tier lists just reflect the opinions and results of a handful of players who are irrelevant to the other 99% of us. They have no impact on most matches with most players. Also, a great Elf player will take down a poor Sagat player every day of the week.
What I find really funny is that people think there’s a tier list for a game that’s a few weeks old, lol.
I think a good example of how tier lists are irrelevant for 99% of the people is the way in which a lot of high-level players are saying Cody is going to be top tier. A lot of people are assuming Sakura is going to be lower tier. Let’s assume both of those predictions are correct; an average guy who just casually plays SSFIV is still going to feel more comfortable with Sakura than Cody, and will do better with her because, in low level play, it’s more “obvious” how to use her moves. I’m basing this on experience with very casual players. Of course, you then have high tier like Ryu and low tier like Makoto (supposedly) and most casual people will feel a lot more comfortable with Ryu than Makoto. Either way, the tier list is only coincidentally right, at best, when it comes to the average guy.
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Tiers are like reviews. It’s an indication of how good/bad a character is at high level play. Is there something really wrong with wanting to check out the reviews for a movie you were planning to go see or a game car you are thinking about buying?
I know a lot of high level guys who mained and grinded the shit out of low tier characters. They can pretty much destroy any half decent player but once they get to high level tourneys their character’s obvious flaws start to show. Poor hit box, mediocre damage, etc, etc. Some switch out of frustration while others grind twice as hard to beat someone actually worse because of their character’s shortcomings. Others stick with their characters because they are sick masochists but get major props when they win…
Just trying to say tiers do matter but honestly don’t really have that much of an effect on the community as a whole.
Casual players aren’t good enough for tiers to matter (since in many games the higher the tier, harder the character learning curve…) and within the hardcore community competitive players will do whatever the hell they can to play as whoever they want.
If you want to play competitively you should pick a character that is not low tier unless you are really dedicated to that character and willing to work harder than the opponent. Playstyle is important when choosing a character but you’d be dumb to pick a worse character if you can be happy with a higher tier character.
Daigo picks top tier in every game he plays. He has won multiple Evo championships.
Keep in mind that some characters may be lower tier but more conducive to beginner/intermediate play.
In this context a casual player without designs on EVO would be better served choosing such a character. If his goal is to win as much as possible, given the amount of investment he puts in.
People who try to pretend that every character can be competitive in the right hands are just as bad as tier whores.
wtf does competitive mean.
I do think there is a back and forth relationship with tier lists and players. Once they are established, they can influence the decisions of character choice of players. This reinforces the current idea of the tier list.
One thing I believe very strongly though is that the highest caliber of players in SF would still win whether they pick top tier or not.
most people are worthless idiots, and they follow the majority. You don’t have to be smart to know this.
Just aware!
If that were the case, then we’d see those players winning tournaments with characters like Dan and El Fuerte rather than Rufus, Sagat and Ryu.
Pretending that character imbalances and bad game design can be overcome with skill is as productive as basing your character choice solely on their placing in the latest tier list.
Why would you see that if they never want to play those characters in the first place? They need the edge a strong character can give them against other players of their skill level.
I’m not pretending, and it sounds like you’ve never played a top player. I’ve seen great players mollywhop other strong players with weak characters.
But seriously, I laugh in the face of people who ask about tiers for a game that’s a week old. Games companies have tight deadlines, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Capcom had a team of 4 people playing the game for about a month, and trying to erase any tiers they find. How is that going to compare to a million people playing the game for a year? It should be obvious: stuff will get discovered as more people play the game for longer.
There is no such thing as a tier list for a new game, and even once there is one, the tiers will change over time. If everybody ignores a character just because Daigo doesn’t like them, then clearly people aren’t gonna develop high-level strategies for that character!
Don’t agree. At all.[LIST=1][]A review is somebody’s opinion, who may not have the same taste as you. I never trust reviews 100% because I am the best judge of the music/movies I like.
[]If you’re good enough for tiers to matter (and let’s remember, we’re talking maybe 50-100 players worldwide, let’s not kid ourselves that any of us are in that category), then you’re good enough to pick your own character and do your own research to learn about them.[/LIST]
If you’re just gonna sit on your bed and play against people online, it’s an epic fail to consult any kind of list.
There needs to be an explanation of tiers in the FAQ. New players don’t understand what they mean and cry about it.
Yes, you can have the heart of a champion and defeat an opponent using a god tier character. However, over a large sample size, you will see trends. Certain characters have certain advantages over other characters. Matchups are more important than overall tier. Zangief was high tier but this was not represented in tournament results because he had poor matchups with the most popular characters.
It’s not just you…
I’ve got friends who swear Sean in 3S is the worst character on the planet and think he has no place to be in the game…even though he can be a decent character with the right moves.
But a proper tier list isn’t a review. The sf4 ones on event hubs were taken from results in Japan, and really were extremely accurate in predicting real life matches. By the numbers, Sagat, Ryu, and Rufus were very strong. And in practice, we saw Mago, Daigo, and over here Wong do very well with them.
If you rebut me with an exception you don’t understand what a tier list is.
You don’t understand what a tier list is. You might win evo2010 with sean, but over a large sample size Sean players will have less success than Chun-Li players or Ken players.
They may have less success, but a lot of people assume that Sean is a garbage tier, and if my friends play as Sean and I use Gouki, if they manage to take me down once they will laugh and say I suck…
It’s not really a review though. A characters strength is a bit more objective than the quality of a movie. I do agree with the point you’re trying to make though.
Also Sean is garbage tier. Remember that tiers are relative, and Sean is the only 3s character that has never qualified in SBO.
My tier list composes of Oh Shit Sagat/Rufus/Able give me a hard fucking time… Oh look it’s Jap top 3.
However with being a character specialist that shouldn’t really be a problem and you also should be prepared for it.
Make your own tier list depending on who you use.