Is Algebra necessary?

BEWD · July 31, 2012, 8:49pm

You devolved into ad hominem first cupcake, I’m just returning the favor, I can keep this up all day :lovin:.

You may not have had to, but someone did, someone needed to learn that math to even create a computer, meaning it’s not “learning pointless shit” as you spew out. Does everyone need to learn calculus? Absolutely not, I can’t even recall using the stuff from calc in my programs. That doesn’t mean we throw out math entirely or just limit it to adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing. I think there should be a shift in the areas of math focused on(possibly statistics and probability, which good fucking luck doing those without knowing any algebra), not removing an entire field as a complete ninny like you who is apparently a bastion of reason and logic(of which mathematical reasoning is included, under the whole “Formal Logic” stuff) would suggest.

BullDancer · July 31, 2012, 8:54pm

You first…

You stay slinging shit to the wall and hoping it sticks…

It’s like you looked up the definition of logical fallacy and think you’re hot shit or something…

You’ve been giving nothing but giving terrible examples and making use of ad hominems…

“I’ll never have to solve a physics problem so what’s the point of Algebra”… if we’re picking nits mr. hasty generalization, you just chose one field that would require algebra and started popping off at the mouth about how useless Algebra is, when in actuality that’s one place that Algebra could be used out of MANY…

Where’s your debate class at?

density · July 31, 2012, 9:01pm

Aaaand my point exactly.
The answer to the good old title of the thread; it’s not necessary.

It may be useful (to a select group of people), but it’s not necessary. And everyone who doesn’t use it isn’t a terrible person. And adding a ton of homo eroticism to your posts doesn’t really add anything useful.

BEWD · July 31, 2012, 9:03pm

No, not your point you stupid shit. You just said it was a worthless field, and Algebra =/= Calculus.

But ok fine, let’s not teach people anything that’s not necessary, hell, anything above adding/subtracting/dividing/multiplying isn’t “necessary”. You don’t “need” to become a computer engineer, or a physicist, or a chemist, or a doctor. You also don’t “need” to be able to use informal logic, know history, or even philosophy for that matter. Just adding/subtracting/multiplying & reading will suffice for getting by. Plenty of people will be glad to make your decisions for you.

density · July 31, 2012, 9:05pm

Just CTRL+F’d “worthless”, can’t seem to find it on this page in any of my posts.

BEWD · July 31, 2012, 9:09pm

"Stay trapped in your little world where you think this stuff is important. Every one of those situations has an easier and more convenient solution, and if you want to complicate life to try and make sense of the useless stuff you learn, then realize at the end of it you spent way too much time doing pointless shit, that’s on you scrub.

Don’t get mad with me when you realize the examples you use are fucking awful and even in the off chance the problem was presented to people, they wouldn’t solve it with Algebra because that’d be pointless."

“Regardless of what animal you may relate me to (a donkey this time) that doesn’t mean your examples aren’t total shit. Maybe if you took some time outside of a world based on shallow thinking and following rigid instructions you’d be able to come up with something better.”

Math is a world based on shallow thinking and rigid instructions? That sure sounds like calling it “worthless” to me, but maybe I should’ve been more exact and said pointless. Better cupcake? :lovin:

Orochi_Ken · July 31, 2012, 9:11pm

Some of you people in this thread are making me facepalm myself into a concussion.

No practical use for math in daily life?! Don’t you morons use MONEY. If anything they should add a basic finance class in grade school so kids can learn about compound interest and how loans work. How savings accounts bear interest. These are extremely important to any functioning adult in the entire fucking world.

This is what discourse has come down to now? “Durr do we need guvernments?” and now “Durr do we need 2 lrn algubra?”

Algebra is one of the building blocks of logic. At the very minimum, it teaches you how to deal with variables. A well rounded education produces active members of society. Why is this up for debate? Does it hurt to be more knowledgeable?

Fuck it, pass me a Brawndo. I’m done.

Joshkaz · July 31, 2012, 9:12pm

Lets just get rid of all these stupid subjects in school and replace them with “Celebrity lives” “Partying” “Being a retard” “Internet Memes”

wiredgod · July 31, 2012, 9:25pm

I didn’t realize math was such a divisive topic.

angelpalm · July 31, 2012, 9:36pm

LOL but aren’t you Filipino?

sexy_back_ver_2 · July 31, 2012, 10:08pm

Math is good.

Necrotrophic · July 31, 2012, 10:12pm

Algebra is relevant. Its fucking basic math. Every industry makes extensive use of it, especially in graphing.
Algebra is seriously easy and the whole purpose of this debate is to defend student laziness.

Warrior_s_Dreams · July 31, 2012, 10:13pm

I think a lot of people are forgetting that algebra is necessary to do well on standardized tests such as the SAT/ACT and the GRE/GMAT. Algebra is also necessary to do well in geometry (which is tested on GRE/GMAT/ACT/SAT) and trig (which is tested on ACT/SAT), which are required for college and graduate school admissions. If you don’t plan on going to grad school, that’s one thing, but I think most people would want to go to college and since it is something that is going to be a significant factor in deciding your score, why wouldn’t you want to learn it? Yes, extracurricular activities and essays are also factored into the admissions process but don’t you think the fact that SAT/GRE scores are being used to weed out potential applicants would imply algebra’s necessity? Why wouldn’t you want to maximize your chances of getting into the school of your choice? Further, even if people band together and say algebra shouldn’t be required for college entrance exams, even if they dropped that requirement, you still have to take some sort of quantitaitve course for general electives . If you fail that course(s), you would still have to take a remedial algebra course anyways.

You’re going to encounter algebra in algebra, geometrry, physics, chemistry , calculus, SAT/GRE, and in whatever quantitative electives you (are forced to) choose. If you have problems understanding it, then you need to find someone who can help you with it, Or go online. In fact, go here

TONS of examples … all with VIDEO tutorials, .

Running away from things that challenge you only means you are passing up an opportunity to better yourself.

KinetiK · July 31, 2012, 10:26pm

Lol you’re right, point taken. The converse is true though right?

Warrior_s_Dreams · July 31, 2012, 10:32pm

Yes

http://www-math.mit.edu/~djk/18_01/chapter02/proof04.html

Necrotrophic · July 31, 2012, 10:35pm

This thread makes me embarrassed to be american. I need to move to Canada asap.

maxx · July 31, 2012, 10:37pm

except the people who pursue those areas will work hard to be good at algebra.

pherai · July 31, 2012, 10:50pm

maybe. Still I’d rather not risk a potential loss in science/engineering talent just to indulge student apathy over math.

fishjie · July 31, 2012, 10:51pm

ew i already addressed this in my previous post. as a kid you’re not going to know if you want to pursue those areas. but if you DO NOT LEARN ALGEBRA AS A KID, THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY YOU WILL EVER MASTER THE ADVANCED MATERIAL NEEDED FOR SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING ONCE YOU ARE IN COLLEGE. nope just forget about it. you’re not just going to magically learn years worth of math all of a sudden. It will be way too fucking late by then. algebra is the cornerstone and foundation of mathematics, all the advanced shit builds off it. and if you don’t learn it by elementary school you’re fucking done.

so why cut off that option for kids before they know if they want to be scientists or engineers? you know who this hurts? non asian minorities. cause the asian parents are gonna teach their kids math at home. that was pretty much true for all the asians i know. the smart white parents will do the same thing. and lo and behold, even though my school was 50% blacks, the AP calculus classes were filled with only white people and asians. we all went on to good schools and made lots of money. THE END.

BEWD · July 31, 2012, 10:59pm

Counter article was just posted today:

In Defense of Algebra

By JESSICA LAHEY
[RIGHT][FONT=arial]Jessica Lahey[/FONT][/RIGHT]
Algebra homework, the second time around.
I admit it: I am one of the millions of Americans who suffer from math anxiety, and my math phobia runs deep. I shudder when the check arrives after dinner, then surreptitiously slide it toward my math-proficient husband. I love all aspects of my teaching job save for grading, which requires me to perform addition and division, and worse, assign inflexible numbers to my students’ aptitude. I am happy to report that I have never, not once, used algebra in my everyday life.
[LEFT]Given my history with math, Prof. Andrew Hacker’s Op-Ed article “Is Algebra Necessary?” should have prompted cheers and fist-bumps with my teenage son. What I got instead was wisdom from the mouth of babes. “Who says algebra isn’t useful?” my son demanded as I slid him the headline. “It’s useful — I mean, it’s not useful now, but I don’t know what I’m going to be. What if I want to be an engineer?”[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Professor Hacker’s article has clearly hit a nerve. His opinion piece has accumulated hundreds of comments, many from educators, engineers and mathematicians arguing for the merits of algebra. I claim no such expertise; my perspective is personal.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]I know precisely where I lost my battle with math, the moment I was informed clearly and unequivocally that I simply wasn’t “a math person.” My seventh-grade math teacher, an otherwise lovely man, called each of his students up to his desk one by one in order to write a “1” (for the honors track) or “2” (for the standard track) on the school’s official math placement forms. As I watched from over his hunched and courduroyed shoulder, he wrote a beautiful, decisive and neat “1” on my form.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]There it was, in permanent ink. I was good at math.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]“Jess, could you come back up here for a minute?” he asked as I floated back to my seat.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]He reclaimed my form, and carefully overlaid that beautiful “1” with a dark, clumsy “2,” pressing hard with his black pen in order to make sure the ink obliterated any evidence of his indecision.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]And from then on, I wasn’t good at math anymore.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]From the moment I was relegated to standard math, I knew I was never going to be an engineer. I went through the motions of my math education, but never put any heart into the subject. My teachers didn’t push back very hard because the evidence was in: I just wasn’t a math person. I’d make it through to the day I could opt out of math forever, and I would never look back.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Except, I did. For years, I have eyed my colleague Alison Gorman’s math classroom with wary suspicion. I peek in on her class when I hear laughter, wondering what could possibly inspire mirth in algebra class. I have watched with wonder during recess when her MathCounts students show up with their lunches, willing to spend valuable leisure time challenging each other to think through math problems.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]At the same time, my son was beginning to come home with math work I could not understand, let alone help him with, and my math deficits had become a household joke. When Ben started to have trouble with the occasional math problem, I realized he had hit a crucial moment in his education. It was time for me to rewrite my own past in order to set an example and protect his future, whether or not he decides to become an engineer. I took my chance — and “enrolled” in Mrs. Gorman’s Algebra I.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Alison Gorman knows about my history with math, but she steadfastly refused to view me as a “2.” She has taught me much more than the quadratic formula and the fact that (x² + y²)² = (x² – y²)² + (2xy)². I have learned discipline and the importance of linear, organized thinking. I have learned patience, diligence and shockingly, I have learned that I am good at math. Even my teenage son has been impressed by my efforts, and believe me, very little impresses him these days.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Algebra class has made me a better student, but more important, it has made me a better teacher and parent. I will be far less likely to impose fixed values and expectations on children, because you know what I learned in algebra class? Even the simplest equations can contain more than one variable. And for that lesson alone, algebra is necessary.[/LEFT]

[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]source: [SIZE=10px]http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/in-defense-of-algebra/?src=recg[/SIZE][/LEFT]

edit: I’ve seen examples of Fishjie’s post in my real life actually. I’ve always been horrid at Math(halfway from not taking it seriously, and never having taken trig or geometry so when I got to calculus oh boy). But for the brief semester I was at an inner city high school I was an absolute genius at math. Pulled off A+s in Algebra 1 & 2 like it was nothing, which seriously implied something was wrong there. It wasn’t me being a genius, it was that the math teaching there was so inadequate.