Fine, any time I’ve used critical thinking just sub in “Logic”, more specifically informal logic is what I’m stressing here.
Interesting you said that about the trivium+quadrivium, I’m all for re-introducing the trivium as part of the required curriculum, I just don’t think we need the entire quadrivium. I’d rather kids add in personal finance, and civics courses, and even an introductory engineering course(engineering, regardless of the field, is more than just applied science and should be treated as such). I mean obviously there’s the case for arithmetic and geometry, but should you really be required to learn Astronomy and Harmonics(the “music” in quadrivium didn’t necessarily mean actually practicing an instrument)?
http://www.sigmaxi.org/meetings/archive/forum.2001.online.tri.shtml - this article makes the case for a new trivium + quadrivium as part of any curriculum, focusing on the integration of the humanities with science and engineering, instead of treating them as completely isolated.
edit: For the love of fuck I can’t believe the question of why would a military strategist need history came up
edit2: Here’s an example of why knowing something as “useless” as History is important for a military strategist.
Obviously people forgot the lesson from Vietnam that even a vastly underpowered force can present problems for a highly advanced professional military. What was meant to be a “FUCK YEAH” mission(and even that’s debatale in light of the MIC) turned into a long drawn out conflict.
Well that I can agree with. The whole “critical thinking” thing irks the hell out of me. People use it as an excuse for all sorts of, IMO, shitty education.
I don’t necessarily agree with your specific examples, but yeah, I’m not going to say it couldn’t perhaps be somewhat improved. Astronomy is cool though, I was taught that it was really more like physics than what we think of as straight up astronomy.
Bonus: I also think American students should be required to take 12 years of either Spanish or French, plus enough of either Latin or Greek to read the classics in their original language.
Because if I wanna know if my vehicle will tip over on sharp turns, I’ll whip out my calculator and graph paper and graph that shit up rather than google it and read reviews about the vehicle…
This is the problem with Algebra. Even the real life examples are unlikely to happen. And just because it can be APPLIED to an object in the real world doesn’t mean anyone will, that’s just proving that it can be used for something, regardless how stupid it would be to use it that way. Yes, Algebra has been used one way or another to complete a task in the past. That doesn’t mean it’s a necessity.
I have a normal life where I don’t need to find out which is more likely to tip over: a sports car or an SUV (by the way the answer is an SUV, and that’s not doing any math, that’s being a critical thinker and maybe reading some literature every now and then), or find batting averages for batters based on their previous batting record (because anyone who finds baseball entertaining can barely do math anyway, that’s why they put it up on the screen for you), or calculate the falling velocity of a roller coaster assuming friction doesn’t matter in some sort of twisted universe with different physics. I don’t think there is any point in arguing with people who think those are things an average person would actually do. Regardless of what animal you may relate me to (a donkey this time) that doesn’t mean your examples aren’t total shit. Maybe if you took some time outside of a world based on shallow thinking and following rigid instructions you’d be able to come up with something better.
^If a 300 dollar suit is 12% off, and taxes are 5%, then how much does this suit cost? How much money did you save?
Where the fuck are you snatching up this notion that you don’t need Algebra to function in the everyday world?
This is an Algebra 1 problem…
While higher levels of math may not help you unless you’re working in the science and technical courses that require higher education, Algebra is not a math you can go without…
And maybe if you looked at my post, I said it is a “source”, I am not the author of the article. Please pull the stick out of your ass.
@Viache: And I don’t agree with your specific examples either(Though I would like to see you defend not teaching students personal finance or civics but teaching them the greco-roman classics), so we’re even. Instead of forcing students to learn French or Spanish + Ancient Greek +Latin, how about we make learning a second language mandatory and offer choices that includes those, but also languages like Mandarin, Egyptian Arabic, or Japanese?
Don’t overestimate yourself you little shit. I couldn’t care less what you think is relevant.
I posted the link to show there are some practical uses, not that those are the only uses, nor the end all be all of why we should teach Math. I believe in teaching both theory and application(and think we teach too much theory not to mention regurgitation), so students can see math skills employed in the real world and how much they use it even if they don’t see it blatantly.
I did math in college and currently I work as an actuary. Here’s the bare minimum that everyone needs to learn:
How to solve simple algebra equations and how they are useful. For example 5x + 3 =14.
Linear graphing and an understanding of what an exponential relationship is.
Logic. For example, if A implies B then B does not imply A and so on.
There are mathematical concepts that are highly applicable to daily life for everyone, even if they don’t go into a math career.
Edit: maybe also the concept of statistical independence of trials. For instance, if you flip a coin three times in a row and gets heads all three times, it doesn’t make it any more likely that tails will be flipped next. This is a common fallacy people make.
Stay trapped in your little world where you think this stuff is important. Every one of those situations has an easier and more convenient solution, and if you want to complicate life to try and make sense of the useless stuff you learn, then realize at the end of it you spent way too much time doing pointless shit, that’s on you scrub.
Don’t get mad with me when you realize the examples you use are fucking awful and even in the off chance the problem was presented to people, they wouldn’t solve it with Algebra because that’d be pointless.
Well, sure. I just picked those two because they’re the major non-English languages spoken in countries that actually border the USA. Easier to find qualified bi-lingual teachers and such.
It’s like trolls plan beforehand to pick a name like this in the hopes someone will catch it, then they will tip their hat, say “jolly good day, sir”, then move on to the next website to try their luck there.
If only it was a paying job that didn’t require math. I could do that easy.
Well this dumb fuck has already accused me of living in a world of useless knowledge, trivia, and pointless shit. Considering that it’s because of a field of “pointless shit” that his punk ass is able to even use a computer(as anyone even remotely familiar with how computers were developed knows) I find it quaint and quite lovely :lovin:
People who fail algebra are fucking retarded. Do your homework, study, and learn it. It’s not hard, and it does have uses in society. So because tons of schools are full of uneducated lazy kids who’d rather keep up to date on the latest meme or celebrity rather than actually LEARN, we should make school easier for them? Yeah cuz that will do wonders for future generations.
FTA:
you could substitute Algebra for History…so should we get rid of history so dumbasses can get through school easier, too?
