Instant Air Jaguar Kick

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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mm… mates, as it seems we are setting the nomenclature for some of Adons unique specials here in shoryuken forum, i wonder…

should we start using “Early Air Jaguar Kick” instead “Instant Air Jaguar Kick” to name the jump-and then-JK technique??

just saying…

iAJK is ok in my opinion (because for example instant air overheads are done the same way, jump-and then-attack), but just wanted to know your opinion.

BTW, im trying to use both versions (TK and IA/EA). In my opinon both have their uses (TK more as surprise attack and IA more as footsie and space control).

and of course, being able to nail TK ones is VERY satisfying; in fact in think they are the reason why i use Adon :slight_smile:

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I have to agree with TVG and the rest. Pressing :u: and then doing the motion assures you that AJK WILL come out (regardless of height), whereas missing the timing on TKAJK does not result in AJK.

But if you can execute TKAJK better than iAJK, more power to you. I’ve tried TKAJK and I’ve gotten it like 1/20 tries. So it really just comes down to preference, IMO.

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???

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“This video was removed by the user.”

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@nacor cb
I guess a true iAJK would come out at the exact same height as a TK JK. I myself have been using both techniques (I definitely get the TK JK out a lot more than 1/20 attempts, I’d say 1/3 in a heated match, not enough to warrant using it other than for the practice) but that is simply because I have an imperfect iAJK (post jump input of course). If one could truly perfect their iAJKs to the point that the c.lp xx lk rj would come out then that would eradicate the need for TK JK. Currently I am succeeding at TK JK much more often than perfect iAJK, but hopefully that’ll change with a bit more practice. Is anyone having success pulling off multiple perfect iAJKs in a row? Like a previous poster, my record for TK JKs is just five in a row and I can’t get anywhere near that with iAJK.

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Blue, huge posts aren’t a problem. Huge out of topic posts are. If you do have a problem with me, feel free to message me so I could promptly delete it and noone else on the forum has to know you don’t like me. The boards are cluttered enough, no one cares who hurt your feelings.

**ON TO TOPIC: **Err, while technically you can plink an iAJK, it doesn’t really make sense. If you hit the HK early, you’re getting a HK, plink or not. Unless j.HK can be kara canceled into a JK (hahaha, who wants to get on testing that? I don’t even know where we’d start…). And while there is a one frame window for a true instant AJK, hitting a JK the second or third frame possible isn’t death, and is still faster than the 3-5 frame buffer a TKJK requires regardless of execution. I invite anyone who thinks TKJK is perfectly fine to check your frame data, 3-5 frames is often the difference between your opponent blocking or not, especially when they’re throwing fast normals at the distance that iAJK is most effective. Just practice AJKs as low as possible and over time they’ll get lower. You’ll probably be doing low JKs but not true iAJKs for a while, it may be months before your first true iAJK in a real match. This, young grasshopper, is called progress.

TKJK is a crutch, use it if you want but that’s what it is. Here’s an analogy for you: Not all Gief players can do a standing 720, but if you use jumpins to buffer all your 720’s you’ll never learn how to. Do you need a standing 720 to win a match? Nah, but I’d way rather fight a Gief who needs to jump-in for his supers than a Gief that can use his character to it’s fullest potential, and is not limited by execution barriers. Seriously, ask yourself what kind of player you want to be. Do you want to be able to execute whatever you want whenever you want, or do you want to rely on shortcuts? Keep in mind, learning a difficult maneuver in any fighting game will only help you in your future fighting game adventures. How you react to a hardship while learning a character says a lot about you as a player; while we all wanna take the easy route, we’re not all winners.

There’s my spew. Any of you wanna keep barking about how you’re still going to Tiger Knee, go ahead, I’m done trying to help show you all the light. Commence barking!

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I don’t really agree with this fully in that it is much more difficult for an IAJK to come out ont he exact frame that a TKJK comes out on. If you have basic execution you can make a TKJK come out on THE frame it could possibly come out on. Though being able to make IAJK do the same would make it the better choice, however that just isn’t the case. Most of the time, IAJK is the one that’s off 3-5 frames. Also, if you’re doing it off of a blockstring there’s no excuse for not hitconfirming earlier and buffering the QCB.

The way I see it, both are the same but TKJK is more consistent. If your hit confirms are up and your reactions are as well, there’s no inherent crutch to using TKJK.

While IAJK(TRUE IAJK that is) is the better choice on all fronts, TKJK is not the difference between winning and losing. In footsies and over fireballs(using a slightly delayed JK is obv what im saying) are the only HUGE improvements and in footsies it’s not really a factor most of the time.

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I don’t have the execution to IAJK over a fireball. I stick with med. kick JK and EX JK.

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If thats the case, it’s probably best to just jump it tbh and buffer dp unless your mk punishing it regularly(which i don’t see happening).

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Well yeah, if im gonna JK over a fireball its to punish. From full screen ill just jump over them.

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:shake:

Okay, for the last time, allow me to walk you through this shit FRAME BY FRAME.

So two Adon’s are sparring, and as is common in a mirror match, find themselves perfectly spaced to try the exact same move on eachother at the exact same time, in this case, an AIR JAGUAR KICK. But what is this? One Adon is proficient in the instant-AJK, while the other Adon is well versed in the TKJK. Let’s see what happens!

iAJK: FRAME ONE: You’ve decided to try an air jaguar kick, so naturally you hit :u:.
FRAME TWO: You’re probably at neutral, moving your joystick away from the up position.
FRAME THREE: You’re hitting :d:. There’s no turning back now friends.
FRAME FOUR: You’re hitting :db:, holy shit man I can’t wait here it comes
FRAME FIVE: And you hit :l:. Depending on how fast you did everything until now, you might already be done with you’re quarter circle back, but don’t worry if you’re not, because you’re still too low to preform a special. Point is, either by now or by the next frame or two, you’ve completed the :qcb:.
FRAME SIX: Here it is, the moment we’ve all been waiting for. You’re hitting :k:. Congratulations. You wanted an air tiger knee and in 6-7 frames, you’ve achieved all you’ve ever wanted and more. You’ve done your part, Adon will take over from here and do a nice jaguar kick as low to the ground as possible, as fast as possible.

Now, a tiger knee’d jaguar kick
FRAME ONE: You’ve decided you want an air jaguar kick. But, instead of hitting up, what’s this? You’re hitting DOWN.
FRAME TWO: You still haven’t left the ground yet, but you’ve got the eye on the prize. Nothing’s going to stop you now, you’re all the way at :db:.
FRAME THREE: Just hit :l:, and the quarter circle back is done! High Five! Now all you have to do is return to neutral to avoid hitting up-back!
FRAME FOUR: Don’t mind me, just chillin with my joystick at neutral.
FRAME FIVE: And we’re back on track! Time to hit :u:! Fuck yeah! But what’s this? The other Adon is already airborne? wtf hax
FRAME SIX: This is my favorite part! PREJUMP FRAMES! They’re the best!
FRAME SEVEN: 'nother pre-jump frame.
FRAME EIGHT: …
FRAME NINE: :wasted:
FRAME TEN: And we’re air borne!:rock:
FRAME ELEVEN: …Not high enough off the ground…
FRAME TWELVE: O.K. O.K. I got this shit! KICK! KICK! :k:!!!
FRAME THIRTEEN: Here we are, the end of the road. You’ve successfully TKJKed, you feel great. Adon blindly flings himself forward, fully trusting your judgment to fly ass first towards your opponent but-
FRAME TWENTY: Adon receives a swift front-flip-kick to the nut sack because he’s still in start up frames while your opponent scores a clean and well deserved counter hit.

Now, even assuming you do the TK as fast as possible, the frames don’t lie. And this is assuming you perform a :qcb: (n) :u: in exactly 5 frames. Something tells me that if you can’t preform :u: (n) :qcb: in 6-7 frames, you certainly can’t :qcb: (n) :u: in 6-7 frames either.

Now unless you find a way to magically input:qcb::u: faster than I can hit :u:, you will never be able to TKJK as fast as an iAJK. Even if you execute the air jaguar kick during the 2nd or 3rd or 4th frame possible, you’re still saving time over doing a :qcb: while still on the ground. This is basic math people. This isn’t a debate, this isn’t a matter of opinion. Use your brains.:nono:

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Yea, I wasn’t assuming you were mking over fullscreen lol. Forgive me for not thinking you were just punishing lol.

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And I fully understand what you’re saying and that’s why I claerly stated that IAJK is better ON ALL FRONTS. I was merely saying that TKJK can still be used almost as effectively. It’s not like you’re just standing and throwing out IAJKs all the time. My opinion was that TKJK can still be viable and that even though IAJK is better, it’s not always the reason why you won or lost, rather unlikely most of the time.

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of course, now that I’ve gotten the hang of iajk I’m (finally) investing in a TE stick and will need to completely readjust. duurrr

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Just to say about Haze that was a great post and I can easily see your opinion. The thing is that IAJK when done is not as reliable as having TK down yes you have to wait but IAJK sometimes can easily be messed up like TK, the thing is when you do the IAJK but might be to late cause yes some people are, u do the jk to late but it’s all good…, but sry to say it isn’t, if you do mess up it sends you flying to the opponent with a wiff thats easy to punish as hell, while tk version is safer because if you mess up you just do a safe jump, but both methods should be used in an adons trickbag, saying that when i get home from my vacation im gonna practice IAJK more cause i was mostly a TK kinda guy

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Uh, no. It’s not a “safe jump”. A good player will catch up and punish you as you land because you have no tripguard.

iAJK that is a little too high still hits crouchers unless it’s the HK version.

I made my case on plinking a few pages back. I’m positive jumping moves do kara cancel just like in old sf games. Not gonna write more about it because fuck this shit.

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Sweet, that lays it out plainly enough that a dunce like me can understand it. As luck would have it I can’t do the TK method at all but I’m hitting the iaJK method pretty consistently, if not consistently as low as I’d like.

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Haze it seems like you´re explaining Calculus level math when these people don´t even know how to add. Just let it go and let bygones be bygones. I´m sure you, TVG, some others and I are better with the character for knowing how to use him properly.

But good shit about that post:tup: Whoever doesnt understand that point of view from there then there´s nothing more that can be done. You might want to pick a different character

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Best case scenario how many frames will tapping down (a crutch I know) before the iaJK method add?

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If there wasn’t so much clutter in this thread I might be able to find that post… but thanks, I’ll take your word for it. You can add, and apparently that makes you better than the average modern SRK member. Hell, if you can Kara cancel an ex move into an ultra, an air normal to special seems pretty simple actually. But do you actually plink iAJK?

Here’s the difference between a TKJK and buffering down. When you Tiger knee, you’re adding AT LEAST 5 frames but realistically, you’re hitting :qcb:, NOT hitting :ub:, then hitting :u:. If you played MvC2 and can fast fly fast as shit, you can maybe get it off within 5 frames, but really, if your execution isn’t good enough to iAJK, you’re not pulling it off in 5 frames. When you buffer down on the other hand, it’s essentially a “superjump” motion. :d: :u:. You’ll probably be in neutral for a frame but even then, the ease and natural path that your stick is taking (a strait line down, than up) is going to take considerably less time than the oblique :qcb: (stop) :u: that a TKJK requires. Not only this, but if you buffer down, it’s much easier to do:
:d: :uf: :qcb:, which will get you the tiniest bit of added range from doing a forward jump instead of a neutral jump.
If I had to estimate, we’re looking at roughly 5-6 frames added before you hit up with a TKJK and 1-3 frames for hitting down before you hit up.
Ideally though, you wanna do :uf: (:r: :df:) :d: :db: :b:+:k:, where the parenthesis inputs aren’t important. It’s just a really fucking fast almost-270 spin of the stick.