How do I do Batman’s leg breaker?
It looks like you can get 33% of your life back (total) if you wager 4 and the attacker wagers 0. Currently, a standard jump-in combo does around 45%-50%, so it doesn’t nullify the hit entirely.
Older MK games, run by the team as Midway put a huge emphasis on visual spectacle and cinematic finishers, leaving their actual gameplay much to be desired. MK9 and Injustice, run by the team as NRS, put a huge emphasis on visual spectacle and cinematic action. Their gameplay is certainly improved from the older generation, but still has its share of basic problems since crafting fighting systems isn’t the team’s forte.
The approach to their games isn’t really that much different between the two eras. The major difference is that NRS is at least trying to appeal to the hardcore fighting game player crowd (since this gives their games good cred and positive word of mouth), emphasis on “trying” because I still don’t think they’ve mastered the art yet. Plus, they still want to keep that cinematic element, and they’re so much more comfortable and experienced with that.
You can’t possibly think it’s that black and white. You aren’t taking into account brand name recognition, marketing, player demographics, and so many other things that go into the development of a thriving offline community. I really wish that a game being exciting to play and watch at high level was all that was required for a community, because then a 4.5-year-old foreign IP like BlazBlue might actually have a ghost of a chance of competing in the West with a 15-year-old fighting game franchise based off of domestic comic books that have been around for over 50 years.
The attacking player can’t lose anything?
The attacking player loses everything. He loses the damage he inflicted. He loses the meter he spent. He loses the positioning he got. Meanwhile, the defending player gets breathing room and all of the life he would have lost because he screwed up completely healed. And through a mechanic that he could only have gotten because he was getting his ass kicked by the other player. Completely retarded.
You guys keep saying “Well, now you have to play smarter.” And I’ll say again, that when the “smart play” is severely hampering your full range of offensive options because the losing opponent has gained an unbaitable burst that heals him and zaps your meter, then something has gone very wrong in the design phase.
I’m not buying this whole balance issue. There are so many games out there where certain characters have more mobility options than other members of the cast and yet they all remain relatively balanced. I won’t claim to know a lot about Vampire Savior, but only four members of its cast have airdashses, and although their airdash movements differ tremendously, all four of them retain momentum after the dash and can attack during them. Due to several other design decisions, the airdashers don’t completely overwhelm everyone else. Hell, even in GG and BB, everyone has different airdash lengths, and you have characters that have double or triple the amount of air actions than everyone else, and the odd character like Tao, Valk, or Hazama who can cross the screen in a split second with their Drives and reach places other cast members will be hard-pressed to touch. Yet everyone is very readily able to compete.
Yeah, I totally express full support for NRS’s feature sets. In recent memory, I think only ArcSys has come close to offering the amount of content that NRS does with their games, but NRS is still sort of in a league on their own with that. They’re really pushing the genre forward in that regard.
Of course, I find none of this matters to me much when I can’t really enjoy their core fighting systems.
I still can’t see them changing much, not this late in the game, and especially given their playtester audience.
It’s his counter. d, b C (or H. Or 3 or whatever).
Damn 33% is a lot. At least that’s the cap though.
I hope pressing a button or something brings up the rematch/char select sooner in the final build. Lex’s feels so long.
Ughh I’m so sick of fighting your bias. Crafting fighting systems isn’t their forte? because you said so in your expertise at crafting fighting systems? Like, this is clearly a baseless opinion. I won’t even answer the ridiculousness that was the insanely biased first half of your post anymore than this. Stop making stuff up.
Obviously brand recognition is important in getting people to buy a game, but if the game is not good, people won’t play it. its simple. SFxT had the license of two HUGE FG properties on its back, and you know what, people didn’t like it and even now in its much better version is having a slightly difficult time finding its place in the scene. Thats what it comes down to. I could tell you why I think the last version of BB was terrible and why it probably killed what little scene it had, but I don’t think I have to. BB was never going to be this giant game because of name, that I will give you, but there’s a reason why the players who did play it, stopped playing it.
The attacking player does not lose screen control, and does not lose meter if he chooses not to. If he can’t win the clash, why does he bother wasting meter? And stop saying they get all of the life they lost back, because they don’t. Only a small percentage. While the burst does put them at equal lengths apart, if you had your opponent in a corner, he is still in a corner. So what happens is the opponent gains a little health back, but has no meter. Now he is susceptible to having to deal with getting bursted on himself, and he still needs to figure out how he’s going to win. while not being able to immediately attack (assuming both players are on their red life bar) without immediately losing a burst himself and having his opponent just essentially reset the situation by gaining the same life back himself. Its going to be very tricky figuring out when the best time to burst is in Injustice. Obviously if you are down in life you want to use it, but if you go all in with it too early you might find you gave up more than you gained. There are clearly negatives to using the burst, its not all positive.
The amount of life you get back depends on the meter you wager, so your idea of just “waiting until the opponent uses a bunch of meter in a combo, and then bursting and then getting all that life back making your opponent waste all that meter” isn’t really viable if a combo in this game that uses all that meter does around 50-60% (maybe more…) and the max you can get back is 30%. At best (having 4 meters) you’ve reset the situation, (0 meters for both, but you still lost 30%…) and worst (probably anything less) a disadvantage. You’ve sacrificed 30-40% or more life to get your opponent to waste his bar. gg. Of course you can burst right at 30% or so, but then your opponent would still have meter advantage and you have wasted your entire bar to reset a mistake you made. Meterless combos in this game about 30%. You know…the more I think about this shit the more I see how perfect clash wager is. This will probably end up being a very last resort move that you don’t want to use unless you absolutely have to to not die.
VS has more options for screen control and much smaller stages than injustice. Can’t be compared that way. Don’t talk to me about BB and balance, either. 
The game looks pretty cool
Going to play it this weekend when I have time
It’s still ugly as fuck though
Weird, i guess that all those recent tournaments that had BBCSEX in their lineup never happened then.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here about the playtester audience. Do you not like Arturo?
Now when you say “ugly as fuck” are you referring to the graphics engine or their artistic leanings? Because graphically I think it looks gorgeous but artistically it leaves me wanting a bit. NRS needs to hire women to do faces for women. They always look a bit mannish.
I suggest you rewatch matches after drinking some camomile tea because your nerd rage is blinding you.
The attacker doesn’t lose meter, they spend meter.
If they lost meter this is what would happen.
Condition 1: Attacker has more meter than initiator.
Result: Attacker deals 33% extra damage
Condition 2: Attacker has 1 bar less meter than the initiator
Result: Defender gains 25% health
Condition 3: Attacker has zero meter and initiator has atleast 1 bar
Result: Defender gains 33% health
By spending meter this is what happens just for the first condition
Condition 1: Attacker has more meter than initiator
CASE 1: attacker and Defender spend all their meter?
Result: Attacker deals 33% extra damage
Case 2: Defender spends no meter (bluffs) attacker spends atleast 1 bar)
Result: Attacker deals 33% extra damage
Case 3: Defender spends 1 bar attacker spends 1 bar
Result: Nothing happens. The burst has been nullified.
Case 4: Defender spends all bars. Attacker spends nothing
Result: Defender gains 33% health
I could keep going because their are so many different case scenarios that could be written down. I’m just pointing out that you are both exaggerating and spreading misinformation.
You are right about the positioning being lost but if you view this as a more sophisticated burst mechanic then you would have zero problems with this system. Unlike other games the attacker can actually do something to counter the burst effect and this burst is extremely limited to 1 per player.
You’re biased towards NRS the same way I’m biased towards ArcSys. We have opinions, therefore we automatically gain biases. This doesn’t mean anything in terms of the debate.
“Let’s see you do better!” is a fallacious non-argument used by people with no counterpoints.
Are we thinking about the same game? Because my recollection was the people almost universally hated vanilla SFxT, and for good reasons, but people kept playing it and having it at every major tournament because EVO jumped the gun on its inclusion and Capcom kept throwing money and cars at the disk. Don’t talk to me about “difficulty finding a place in the scene,” because SFxT got a free ride for almost a year on brand name alone. No one would even bother if it didn’t have Ryu and pals.
Gee, I guess all of those tournaments that happened the past few months were just in my imagination.
He loses screen control because Wager puts both players back in neutral. Not only that, but losing the clash gets the attacker knocked down and pushed back towards the corner, when Wager already moved people near the center of the screen anyway. So even more losses if you had pushed the opponent in a corner. You may not have to wager meter, but you do lose it if your opponent bursts in a meter-burning combo, so you have to neuter your combo extenders and enhanced special moves or risk forcing a losing wager. Which will lead to players being afraid to use their meter options because the opponent has Clash, which he got from losing faster. If both player have Clash, the same phenomena occurs.
I’ll concede to a certain amount of misunderstanding on my part regarding the health regen, but things don’t really change too much. In fact, now there’s a new wrinkle. Going by Arturo’s mechanics video, wagering a full 4 bars and winning gets you back a 33% flat rate of your total health. So it turns out it’s possible to heal more damage than you would have taken for the combo. Now you could just burst a jab and get back a cool third of your health. And if you do choose to burst late in a combo, it’ll take up to a 67% combo before winning a clash won’t heal at least the majority of the damage.
Clash’s existence puts an unnecessary burden on the attacking player for no good reason.
If it turns out that Round 2 gameplay doesn’t devolve into people being too cautious to fully attack whenever they can’t win a wager, then I’ll gladly eat my hat on this.
Gee I guess major tournaments like Summit of BlazBlue having such a huge representation of characters in its Top 16, and the winning player using one of the “weaker” characters to obtain victory don’t go to show that everyone can viably compete. What was I thinking?
The playtesters for this game seem to be largely from the MK and SF crowd, who probably haven’t touched an airdashing fighter other than Marvel in months. Maybe Persona at best.
I don’t really have any particular opinion for or against Arturo; I haven’t really watched or remembered any of his matches. I’m sure he’s a great guy.
I wish WW had a proper IAD. Oh well, looks like it’s back to going for j.H crossups on wakeup.
I’ll admit to misunderstanding how much health is recovered on wager (see above), but I believe the issue still stands. A lot of those specific cases won’t really matter because there isn’t much of a reason to burst in the first place if the attacking player can force a winning wager, and there aren’t many reasons for why the defender won’t always go all in if he has more meter than the attacker. Health > meter any day, and meter generation is so fast in this game that he’ll have some of his meter options back in no time.
Now that’s just blatantly false. Other games with burst mechanics have had players be able to bait and block unsafe bursts and punish with a high-damage combo since forever. Burst also isn’t entirely generated by losing, and the best ones let you use the Burst meter for some sort of offensive option as well.
Ahhhh, you just keep going. Ok. I’m going to keep this short then I’m going to quit because clearly nobody is going to sway you on anything ever. And I honestly don’t want to fill this thread with our crap, when it should be discussing about characters and theory fighting.
A.There is no argument, whether NRS 's forte is fighting game engines is highly subjective. thats what I was saying.
B.I threw in the BB stuff mostly to make you angsty. I honestly haven’t paid the slightest attention to that game in like, 2 years.
c. Blazblue is ass. ;D
d. I’m not going to argue on Capcom’s influence. I just know they made a game not many people liked, and not many people played it.
e. I clearly won the clash debate. You’d like to overly simplify the metagame of it and call it stupid.
Bowing out? Fine by me. Although this entire spiel was theory fighting in the first place, so by your own account you should be happy. Last response.
A. They like cinematography and tons of extra modes and features. It’s what they’re good at.
B. Well, start.
C. Then what does that say about Injustice, whose Trait system is a pale imitation of Drive?
D. But more played it than they probably would have if there wasn’t the SF name and the chance to win a car.
E. That’s not what “metagame” means.
Theory fighting is fine, but we’re just going to keep repeating the same points. We’re clearly on very opposite sides of the fence here and aren’t going to budge. I stopped paying attention to BB because I think its a bad game, not going to start again. Maybe it got better, I dunno. Injustice copied a lot of games not just BB, I don’t know if thats a counter argument, just a fact. The metagame of using drive was what I was arguing, like why you shouldn’t use it first unless you absolutely have to. And why it has a balance in a 1 round 2 lifebar fighter where it might not in a regular 3 round fighter.
Just throwing out if you haven’t paid attention to the game in years, then you may as well still be talking about BBCT, which is an entirely different animal than the rest of the games which well, aren’t ass at all.
I guess we’ll see where things end up down the line.
I think mk9 is one of the WORST fighters to come out in along time I brought it day 1 an it felt so bad an I thought doa5 was bad, but Injustice so far seems to correct everything well almost everything that I found wrong in mk9 an so far I love the game played it for hours even though it was a demo.