Besides his usual trolling last sentences, I can kind of see what he’s saying…
You can still have mix up heavy characters like Cammy and Ibuki, it’s just they’ll work more like they did in their older games where the mix up actually requires some type of risk and work in the neutral. Not just simply HKD then take advantage of long wake up times. The game is getting back to a more active neutral and pressure game where there’s less times of people laying on the floor. Not to mention give more advantage to characters who play more mid range and have more straight forward mix ups. Even a basic mid range character frame trapping you and throwing you will should be strong again like before.
There’s a lot of people who think the HKD and lack of true block strings and over emphasis on jab combinations in SFIV is really bland also. Might as well try something new things while also reverting back to what worked before which SFV seems to be doing.
Holy hell.
Now I know what you pre Sf4 SRK guys felt like back in late 08
^^ I honestly don’t know which was worse.
At least the 09ers then were coming from a place of ignorance not born of their own fault since they were new to the genre.
These new guys though…
Oh wait these new guys all came around a certain amount of years ago… Back in… O something or other… Hmmm… There may be some sort of connection here… Maybe.
I’d like that very much. Why the hell have they kept instant dive kicks and deceptive jumps from SF4, if their goal is to remove random bullshit? Doing a perfect anti-air, only to get hit by a random dive kick is like punishing the more skilled player. Either capcom have no intention of removing bad elements of SF4, or they’re incompetent. I will say that you can learn to block every oki if you know the game well enough, but everyone gets hit by random dive kicks every now and then.
“What was working before” attracted enough people to sustain a few arcades… Third Strike and the previous games, which I loved, were failures as far as tournaments go, compared to SF4. How is going back to these games some guarantee of success? I love Third Strike, but SF5 is more like a watered down SF4 with a few gimmicks thrown in than anything else. Can you think of 40 v-triggers that function like Ryu’s parry, but are different, and yet all relevant and cool? Will Capcom be able to do that? What SF5 needs is faster walk speeds, f. dashes, and other universal mechanisms to make footsies more interesting. Right now it looks like the next SFxT (trademarked).
i want zoning and defensive play to be viable again.
I want to see a strong dhalsim, vega, honda and runaway rolento.
Actually, the Ibuki example I had in mind was at an NCR event a while back where Valle was playing solidly throughout the tournament with Ryu and showcasing some really solid and fine play. He then encountered an Ibuki and it was quite literally lights out. A real annihilation. Detail is not required, we all know what a looping Ibuki throttling looks like. Something about the two extremes of play doesn’t quite sit right with me. You can chalk it up to character diversity or perhaps even a complete ignorance of the matchup and so on, and you may well have a point. No disagreements there.
I am not ‘bitter’ or however you want to phrase it about these aspects. My preferred character had his share of bullshit in previous versions of SFIV too, and I spend quite a bit of time playing against a really solid Ibuki and an exceptionally bastardly Fuerte. My point is that oki, mixups and what have you will always be in Street Fighter, what I said was I’d like to see it roped in (in comparison to SFIV) in SF5 - particularly some of the aspects that appear fundamentally rooted in ‘time to guess, sucker!’ design.
Ibuki’s SFIV incarnation is an example of this. One could also argue there is something fundamentally ‘off’ about the intentions behind how Fuerte and Viper function also. These are the things I’d personally like to see roped in as a means to highlight the new game having a solid foundation. I am not ‘bitching’ about these characters, I am talking about the design intentions behind them. Yes, you can consider them elements of diversity and I don’t disagree with you there at all, but is diversity that sees some characters hinge on these design aspects a good thing?
Again, this is just my opinion. There is no need to start chewing dudes out and tagging them as bitter, pathetic and elitist because they may have a differing opinion. The whole point behind this very thread is for all sorts of folks to chime in with “improvement and mechanics they would like to see.” Disagree all you like, I welcome it, but jumping to assumptive conclusions about where my (and others) reasons come from strikes me as kinda silly.
Honestly I see people blocking and letting themselves get thrown ALOT the new throw change means trying to throw tech results in a 3full jump in combo on you if they neutral jump and you attempted to tech. That’s going to be a big deal with the current stun as that into another throw/neutral jump scenario and you are dead. Getting cornered is going to be a really really dumb game of hold downback and let them throw me so I don’t lose the round. I’m not saying crouch teching needs to be around, but having normal throws become like SF4 command throws in recovery is not what i wanted. Especially since DP->FADC is gone so now you aren’t even going to get a decent punish for committing to blocking and reacting to their neutral jump. Just see it reducing the thought process on the corner game ALOT.
It sure as hell isn’t the mechanics of SF4 that helped revitalise the franchise, if that’s what you’re implying. And it certainly wasn’t the fault of SF3 that arcades were dying or that the scene was small.
It was successful because IT WAS A NEW FUCKING STREET FIGHTER GAME. We were playing Third Strike for LONGER than SF4 has been out, or will have been out by the time SFV drops. Nine years. Nine years of 3rd Strike, and you have the gall to imply SF4 rebuilt the scene because of it’s system? It was (and remains) by many accounts a technical piece of shit, but, it was NEW.
This is exactly the same reason why SFV will succeed. It is a new game. This is not the Smash community. We don’t hold onto a game for a decade and a half, we embrace new things.
if the meta ends up looking like that, it won’t be the first SF game where people just take the throw because they’re afraid to die. it’s also not that dire - there’s no air parry in SF5, so if your opponent neutral jumps in front of you to bait whiff grab, you can still anti air and get out of the corner right after. I also don’t think it reduces the thought process of the corner game at all - it’s the opposite. if you’re stuck in the corner and you’re afraid to whiff grab, you’re going to have to be pretty on the ball defensively.
my fears are the opposite - that throw range won’t be good enough or that walk speed won’t be fast enough to bait throw reliably once people learn the game.
Not sure how old you are, but 3S came out in 1999… so that’s 16~ years.
I want people to remember why they block on wake-up again.
I think that’s the only issue as well, having good enough walk speeds to encourage bobbing and weaving kind of play be it for throw/throw tech baits or for general footsies/whiff coaxing and whiff punishing.
Combofiend was asked on stream about this and he said that walk speeds are good enough and tried to dodge the question a bit by saying Bison and Nash were designed on purpose to have slower walk speeds. That I understand, but it doesn’t explain Ryu’s, Cammy’s, or Chun’s walk speeds. I think we may have made enough noise that it may change by the time the beta comes out, but yeah we have to make real judgements when we try the game for our selves.
If the walk speeds end up still too slow, as beta testers we can give our input and hopefully Capcom could seriously consider us. They seem to be doing pretty well on SFV compared to “listening to us” for Ultra SFIV.
People really need to stop jumping the gun saying things like “this character has bad walk speed, and it must be improved otherwise the game is broken and unplayable”. If you want Chun or Ryu’s walk speed, then play them. Do Chun or Ryu have an invisible dash? Does Cammy have a fireball or a sonic boom to teleport mix up? No? Maybe that’s part of the balance considered when adjusting walk speeds. Also Nash has some good normals for use as offensive pressuring. If you feel like you have to walk with him, you’re playing the wrong character.
Thanks for skewing what I am saying. I really appreciate it.
What you’re saying already sounded skewed. Like everybody needs the same walk speed for the same throw bait setups. But I’m glad SOMEBODY appreciates me around here. B)
I already said I know why Bison and Nash are balanced they way they are in terms of walk speed, I’m fine with that. They have slow walk speeds because their inside pressure game is strong and have their V-Triggers supplement them.
All I want for Ryu is a tad slightly faster walk speed. Not like 1.5x or 2.0x. Just a tad so weave is a bit more encouraged. That’s it. And as I said, I can only really make better judgements when I play the game during beta. And if, and only if, I feel they’re not satisfactory, I can send my input to Capcom. If they’re actually good enough to my liking, then I’ll express that instead.
And yeah, I really like you vilifying me. Once again I must show my appreciation and gratitude.
you have displayed low reading comprehension in two of your last few posts so let me help you out
-
he’s likely talking about from when 3s came out to when SF4 came out, not 3s to current day. this seems pretty clear and not hard to figure out.
-
he’s talking about the entire cast having too low walk speed for the ground game or oki game to end up the way Capcom wants it. it seems that Capcom is trying to recreate something more like 3s or CVS2 ground game, and the argument is that walk speed in general is not fast enough to be similar to what happens in those games. he’s not talking about X character needs faster walk speed.
if you’re going to bother responding to posts, please actually read them, then think about what they mean, before you respond to them. thanks.
I am 30. 3S was released in 1999, SF4 was released in 2008. That’s nine years.
SF4 will only be seven, shy of eight years old, by the time SFV drops.
We still played 3S longer than we will have played SF4. We were starving for a new game back in 2008. The only reason SF4 did so well was because it was new.
How fucking hard is it for people to specify what they mean? Don’t just say “…That I understand, but it doesn’t explain Ryu’s, Cammy’s, or Chun’s walk speeds” because I have a fairly low threshold when it comes to determining what a poster is trying to say. I’m not going to read every line within a wall of text for example. Life is short, I need to enjoy it more. Specify “slower walk speeds”. I’m not even trying to be hostile or passive-aggressive right now but people are talking way too vague for me to digest what their point is.
Anyway, if I can have a true counter argument, the explicit reason for variable walk speeds comes down to frames. Birdie’s v-skill options all have 3 different frame totals. Supposing all his v-skill options were the same frame count, or say that Ryu’s walk speed was slightly improved, he could just walk in sweep Birdie out of v-skills more dependably.
Sure after a knock down you might think a character can apply tick-throw pressure, but it’s way more limited than how SF4 was. I mean you can quick rise after throws and sweeps now so okizeme is already drastically diminished. If you want to maximize your knockdown frame advantage you basically have to dash in. So again, improvement in walk speed doesn’t mean that much, and could just end up imbalanced considering the start up on a character’s attack compared to the reach.
Lastly, Cammy’s f.HK (I think is the input?) looks really good and you can combo out of it, and she’s always been a mobile character even without using a walk or a dash. Spiwow Awwow!