the health balancing is even more dumb when there are revenge meters involved allowing some characters to easily ultra 2 times in 1 round when others cannot at all.
Iâd like to see universal hurt-boxes on all characters. Character specific anything is way over-rated. At that point it becomes a game of research which IMO, becomes real boring real fast. Not to mention it shows how lazy your test guys are.
The ability to be able to wake up when YOU want to from a knockdown as well as being able to roll backwards or forward.
Honestly, the main hurtbox during hitstun of all characters should be just one big rectangle.
See DeeJay hitstun hurtbox for more. That thing is bullshit.
I think health would work as a balancing mechanic in theory.
It just doesnât work out so well in practice. Low health characters end up having too many tools and high health characters end up with not enough.
Itâs probably because they donât properly account for player development
Health is a terrible balancing mechanic. Low stamina characters generally dominate games, cause of (as HNIC said) being given a shitload of extra tools to compensate for lower stamina. More tools is infinitely better than the extra sliver of stamina.
I donât think health is that bad of a balancing tool. Low health doesnât always mean the characters are OP. Yang is a character with low health who isnât OP. Different playstyles archetypes may have no other choice than requiring tweaks in health to balance out.
ex) If youâve got a lumbering grappler player, health might actually be the better way of balancing rather than giving him more tools. More health means that he just can take slightly more hits trying to get in. This is a much safer way of balancing than giving him a new tool that lets him get in more easily, and it allows him to keep his grappler archetype.
I think the main imbalance comes with low health characters that have too many tools or too powerful of tools. Not sure what to do to fix that, but I find that health allows for making characters more unique with regards to their playstyle. If all characters have the same health, then it limits how much uniqueness they can have with their play style.
Ultimately, tweaking health allows characters to compensate by being weaker or more powerful in certain areas. If health is the same, then these areas canât be pushed as much and uniqueness among playstyles suffers for it.
Do everything characters like Seth and Akuma only exist cause of health balancing. Either of those at 1000 stamina would be straight up broke. So it encourages giving characters everything and the kitchen sink in exchange for lower stamina. It encourages bad design.
Characters can be more powerful and weak in different areas by the various moves and tools you give them. With stamina generally you end up giving up lower stamina characters more strengths and no weaknesses or fewer weaknesses, and higher stamina characters fewer strengths and many weaknesses.
You will undoubtebly lose character uniqueness if they all have the same health. Glaring weaknesses and glaring strengths and everything in between are what make characters unique.
Thereâs no such thing as a balanced slow grappler character like Zangief at a normal health. He would either have to be less slow or have an easier time getting in. Even though theyâre buffs, theyâre destroying what makes him unique. Theyâre destroying what makes him Zangief.
I agree that theyâve done a poor job with the low health characters. But for the most part Iâd rather they nerf their damage than remove their tools. I would prefer that Yun did less damage to balance him out rather than just removing his playstyle altogether.
There are exceptions to this. Certain tools are a poison to this game and balancing by low health is no excuse for them. Iâm talking about mindless autopilot vortex in particular. This is a unique skill that I would be happy to never see again.
Balanced slow grappler with normal health has already been done in Skullgirls. Already mentioned in this thread, Cerebella. In skullgirls all characters have same stamina, yet it does not deter the cast at all from having incredible diversity. Another balancing tool besides health is damage, that can be used.
Skullgirls is Skullgirls.
Tell me what you would change about Zangief if he had 1000 health. Tell me what you would change about Yun if he had 1000 health.
I am a DeeJay main which is why I want this. You have no idea how salty I was (and still am) when I found that cl.mk > cl.mk > st.mk xx sobat only works on DeeJay and El Fuerte in both the corner and midscreen. Then it breaks down to cl.mk > cl.mk . st.lk > sobat only works on 17 out of 44 of the entire cast. And of those 17, Sakura, Adon, and sometimes E. Ryu seem to be animation dependent (?) on rather the lk hits or not. If cl.mk > cl.mk > st.mk xx sobat works on even one character, it should work on everybody. Ultra Character Specific 4 has the most inconsistent hurtboxes of any game Iâve ever played. Capcom needs to fix that bullshit.
With Zangief, I might make him even scarier and more dominating up close. More various options for the opponent to worry about.
YunâŚdonât know. However in general I donât want divekick characters in SFV (that would include the twins).
I kinda miss my CvS2 low jumps!
-No comeback mechanics
-Faster walk speed/dashes
-AA more rewarding
-Get rid of Focus Attack, that shit is stupid
-Higher damage in general, less emphasis on anime combos (and if the character design is dependent on longer combos then have a special attack that is + enough on hit to do a few loops of it like Sak or Elena, fuck the FADC forward stuff)
-Make fireballs/zoning tools more rewarding, its so useless in SF4
-Guard Crush/meter is needed so badly
-No more reversal DP
-Universally being able to combo off overhead/get some sort of reward
As of now, I wonder if there are going to be extra modes for players to gain access to, like in CVS2, KOF98 or SFA3âŚ
That and whatever sub-system or character specific aspects we may have in place. Not as much information on showcase at this time.
The reason grapplers usually end up weak is because theyâre not actually doing more damage compared to low stamina characterâs combos. yun can actually out damage Gief, AND he has all these other ridiculous tools. I think the answer might be to make the command grabs more powerful, but weaken his options against people avoiding the grab (lariat). In sf4, you donât wanna get grabbed, but if you jump away an get hit by a lariat, thatâs practically just as bad. The round is over either way. This is just plain RPS. Make SPD do 40% damage and make lariat push the opponent out of oki range and a lot of fun choices come out of knowing that Gief REALLY wants to grab you because it matters.
Side note: 1 frame SPD just does not work in a game with low hitstun. You could make it 3 frames and the damage and range make it worth using.
I think health as a balancing tool can work. something not being considered with the Cerebella argument is that Gief isnât just the way he is for the sake of balance. Street Fighter grapplers are meant to appeal to players who are more interested in hard reads and might have trouble with execution. Cerebella doesnât really deliver in that aspect. Gief players are going to get less hits in, but hopefully make it up when they do get in. Giving beefy characters more health just makes sense to me from a character design perspective.
There is much more to consider than just character balance. Fun is way more important, IMO. There have always been grappler specialists despite the fact that they always suck.
Lariat just as bad as SPD?. Itâs 120 damage vs 180 - 250 damage, it isnât even a consistent AA and is easy to punish on whiff. That move has always been borderline silly to begin with, nerf it even more, and now opponents just jump all day knowing Gief canât do anything about it. I donât see the fun in right choices that are so obvious.
As if fun were the opposite of balance, as if that couldnât been said of any other archetype or as if making grapplers good for once were going to kill all the âfunâ players are having. Playstyles made bad on purpose are good for the game? Ok, yours first.
has anyone ever had fun in a SF4 match that involved Zangief? I havenât witnessed it, but maybe thatâs just me.
Zangief is no different than any other character. He has good and bad matchups. If you play a character that relies on leg-humping mixups, Zangief is not going to be a fun matchup. If you play Sagat, Zangief is going to be one of your easier matchups. Thereâs nothing about grapplers that makes them inherently more annoying to fight against than any other archetype - maybe in SF2 where one knockdown is basically game over but certainly not in SF4 where there are multiple get-of-command-grab-free cards. Grapplers are easier to bully in SF4 than they were in the past.