Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

[Eternal]

AFAIK We don’t know if supers are tied exclusively to the revenge meter or if that is a separate thing entirely. There could easily still be supers and ultras.

If you are saying you expect a normal combos using EX moves to go as HIGH as 35-40% you are basically asking for combos to do less than SF4 since combos in** SF4 can do 40-45%** using EX bar. Hell, Hugo and Evil Ryu can do 40% meterless without a jump in. Just short of half of the cast can do ~28-40% damage meterless without a jump in. Juri herself can do 37% without a jumpin if she has 2 fireballs stocked and 42% with a jump in.

I think you’re just kind of pulling numbers out of a hat without actually looking at how other games compare or how much the numbers you decided on actually are. We still don’t even know how exactly the chip mechanic works or how meter works. Then there is also the issue of the speed of mobility and the ability to actually land hits. If you can’t land a hit very often (which it looks like may be a problem in SF5) then the hits you do land need to count.

But now since everything causes dmg regardless that 35-40% will mean much more since you’re constantly doing dmg to your opponent whether through blocking or getting hit. I don’t recall SF4 combo’s doing 40%+ dmg off of one ex bar.

Well you recall poorly, many combos did 35-40%+ off of 1 bar depending on characters. And originally you’d said 35-40 not 40%+ and you’d not said “1” ex bar. Some need 2 but a decent amount can do it off of 1. I had only said “ex bar” not specifying an amount. A couple of chars can break 400 with 2 EX moves or nearly hit it like Ryu who needs EX Tatsu - EX SRK. Or a couple of chars with EX FADCs.

Assuming 1000hp = 100%, every 10 damage = 1%. Here are some high damage combos:

Juri crHP - LK Fuhajin Release - farMP - MK Fuhajin Release - FarMP - EX Pinwheel = 387 damage. 38.7%
fjHK - crHP - LK Fuhajin Release - farMP - MK Fuhajin Release -farMP - EX Pinwheel = 438 damage 43.8%

Guy
clsHK - farMP xx HP - LP Hozanto - EX Tatsu = 338. 33.8%
clsHK - LP-MP-HP-HK - EX Hozanto = 344
clsHK - farHP - farMP - EX Hozanto = 332

Cody
F+MP - clsMP - crHP - EX CU = 338
EX Badstone - F+MP - clsMP - crHP - HP CU = 402
NJ HP - clsHP - crMP - HK Ruffian - EX CU = 448 (char specific)

Cammy
EX CS - clsHP - crMP - crMK - MK Spiral arrow = 318
fjHK - clsHP - farMP - EX Cannon Spike = 341

Rolento
Air Raid - clsHK - crMK - EX Patriot Circle - clsHP = 359

Gouken (corner 1 bar)
clsHP - EX Palm - High Fireball - Mid Fireball - MK Tatsu = 426
clsHP - EX Palm - High Fireball - Low Fireball - HK Tatsu = 444 (char specific)
NJ HP - clsHP - EX Palm - High Fireball - Low Fireball - HK Tatsu - 490 Damage (char specific)

Sagat
FJ HP - clsMK - crLP - EX Tiger Upper = 404

Fei Long
HK Chicken Wing - clsHP - EX Flame Kick = 352

Oni
BMP - BMP - BMP - HP - EX Tatsu = 320
fjHP - BMP - BMP - BMP - HP - EX SRK = 403 (char specific)

Elf Run Stop Fierce loops can hit 400 meterless

From combo tier list - mid screen 1 bar no jump in:

[475] Hugo [HP Giant Palm Breaker , MP Giant Palm Breaker , EX Giant Palm Breaker , LP Giant Palm Breaker , st.LP, st.LP, cr.LK xx LK Monster Lariat]
[420] Dudley [cr.HP, s.HK xx EX Machinegun Blow, LK Ducking>Ducking Straight, LP Machinegun Blow] (carries to corner)
[412] Cody [EX Bad Stone, (walk forward) cl.HP cr.HP xx HP Criminal Upper] (char specific)
[403] Evil Ryu [cr.MP, cl.HP xx MK Ryusokyaku, cr.mp xx LK Tatsumaki Zankuukyaku, EX Shoryuken]
[399] Sakura [LK Shunpukayku, cl.HP xx LK Shunpukyaku, cr.HP xx EX Shunpukyaku , HK Sakura Otoshi>followup>2nd>3rd]
[398] Gouken [cl.HP xx EX Senkugoshoha, dash, HK Tatsumaki Gorasen]
[392] Boxer HP Dashing Overhead Punch, cr.MP xx EX Dashing Uppercut, cr.LP, cr.MP xx HP Buffalo Headbutt]
[384] Ibuki [cr.HP xx Jump, MP Kunai, st.MP, st.MK xx LK Tsujumi, s.LP,t st.MK xx EX Neck Breaker]
[377] E. Honda [cr.MK xx EX Hundred Hand Slap, cr.LP xx HP HundredHand Slap, st.HK]

Corner - Meterless
[414] Sakura [(Max Charged) HP Hadoken, cl.HP xx LK Shunpukyaku, c.HP xx HP Shouoken]
[402] Evil Ryu [cr.MP, cl.HP xx MK Ryusokyaku, cr.MP xx LK Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, LP Shoryuken, EX Shoryuken](build 1 bar used in the last EX Shoryuken)
[400] Seth [LP Tanden Engine, cl.MP, cl.HP xx HK Hyakuretsukyaku, jump, d.MK>2nd>3rd>d.HK]

There isn’t a “Corner 1 bar” section though.

These don’t even have focus attack starters.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I see. I’m guessing this is the equivalent of “any kind of combo?” Practical and unpractical? I guess it’s just easier to say combo’s should be 3-4 good combo’s to KO someone.

[Eternal]

I see. I’m guessing this is the equivalent of “any kind of combo?” Practical and unpractical? I guess it’s just easier to say combo’s should be 3-4 good combo’s to KO someone.

You didn’t say “any kind of combo” you just said “combos should be as high as 35-40%” many of those combos I listed are actually viable max damage punish combos in many situations for 1 bar. Every one listed for Guy/Gouken/Fei Long/Rolento/Hugo/Cammy/Seth/Evil Ryu/Balrog is viable. Juri can consistently hit ~27-30% with totally viable simple combos [corner combo vs crouching character, crLP - sLP (link not chain), far or close MP xx LK Fuhajin release - crHP xx EX Pinwheel = 309. Mid screen vs standing or crouching, slp - slp - farMP xx LK Fuhajin release - crMK xx HK Pinwheel = 265 meterless ]. Cody’s NJ HP - crHP - HP CU is a common punish that does 348.

If you are talking about hit confirm BnBs than you need to be clear you mean that and not punish combos.

Even then SOME characters can hit ~30-35% with 1 bar on a hit confirm combo but it’s rare. Dudley can do it for instance with a combo like F+MK - crLP - sHK xx EX MGB - Ducking Upper (343) or crLK - crLP - sHK xx EX MGB - Ducking Straight - LP MGB (306) (corner combo but can start from nearly mid stage thanks to EX MGB corner carry being so much)

That was why I posted it. 3-4 hit confirm BnBs for a round are pretty realistic for most characters but that is without discussing supers which was the original point we were discussing. In SF4 raw supers do ~33-36% usually done raw when they are comboable type supers and supers are widely considered to be not worth using except for a handful of characters.

If EX moves shouldn’t do more than supers (as you brought up and is reasonable) but supers are only usable via revenge gauge which is only obtainable via taking damage, why bring up the comparison of EX moves to Supers at all? They use totally different resources with totally different intended uses. Actually what should be discussed is EX moves compared to using the powerup stance, as well as how many ex moves are available to characters figuring into the strength of said EX moves. Chun had 4 stocks while Ryu only had 3. This changes the value of EX moves when compared to powerup states as you get powerup much quicker so saving your bar is more viable.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I see. I’m guessing this is the equivalent of “any kind of combo?” Practical and unpractical? I guess it’s just easier to say combo’s should be 3-4 good combo’s to KO someone.

You didn’t say “any kind of combo” you just said “combos should be as high as 35-40%” many of those combos I listed are actually viable max damage punish combos in many situations for 1 bar. Every one listed for Guy/Gouken/Fei Long/Rolento/Hugo/Cammy/Seth/Evil Ryu/Balrog is viable. Juri can consistently hit ~27-30% with totally viable simple combos [corner combo vs crouching character, crLP - sLP (link not chain), far or close MP xx LK Fuhajin release - crHP xx EX Pinwheel = 309. Mid screen vs standing or crouching, slp - slp - farMP xx LK Fuhajin release - crMK xx HK Pinwheel = 265 meterless ]. Cody’s NJ HP - crHP - HP CU is a common punish that does 348.

If you are talking about hit confirm BnBs than you need to be clear you mean that and not punish combos.

Even then SOME characters can hit ~30-35% with 1 bar on a hit confirm combo but it’s rare. Dudley can do it for instance with a combo like F+MK - crLP - sHK xx EX MGB - Ducking Upper (343) or crLK - crLP - sHK xx EX MGB - Ducking Straight - LP MGB (306) (corner combo but can start from nearly mid stage thanks to EX MGB corner carry being so much)

That was why I posted it. 3-4 hit confirm BnBs for a round are pretty realistic for most characters but that is without discussing supers which was the original point we were discussing. In SF4 raw supers do ~33-36% usually done raw when they are comboable type supers and supers are widely considered to be not worth using except for a handful of characters.

If EX moves shouldn’t do more than supers (as you brought up and is reasonable) but supers are only usable via revenge gauge which is only obtainable via taking damage, why bring up the comparison of EX moves to Supers at all? They use totally different resources with totally different intended uses. Actually what should be discussed is EX moves compared to using the powerup stance, as well as how many ex moves are available to characters figuring into the strength of said EX moves. Chun had 4 stocks while Ryu only had 3. This changes the value of EX moves when compared to powerup states as you get powerup much quicker so saving your bar is more viable.

Yeah…I kinda fell on my face on that one. I didn’t specify what type of combo but when I read them over I saw what looked like impractical combo’s or combo’s that I can’t see being pulled off on a constant max punish basis.

Wait…I thought Chun only had 3 bars and Ryu gets 2? They changed that?

Anyway, As for the super thing. I think Capcom might have done it so now that supers are the new ultra and (thus far) having a full EX meter stocked won’t yield a super (thus far) just means I think they are trying to focus more on less “high dmg single moves” in favor of a more “super less” combo game. Because as we all know getting hit by a super deals a good chunk of dmg in one fell swoop. The reason I brought up supers doing more then an EX move is because I want to see every character have a decent super. Because as you said in SF4, having your meter stocked for a super was for the most part a waste since FADC was far more reliable and much better utility then burning all your meter on a single super.

[Eternal]

It might have been 3 / 2 I’m going by memory. I didn’t fact check that one.

[otter]

I think that strikes should beat throws if connecting on the same frame, just figure out a different way to make throws better like shorter tech window and/or slight frame advantage for whoever initiated the throw after a tech. Simple stuff like that could go a long way in making the game more offensive while also not making it too good.

Although apparently every character will have their own “v-trigger”, i’m wondering if there wll be another truly universal mechanic added in this game.

I suspect so. I hope cross cancels (alpha counters) come back. Those would be nice.

It depends in if there is blockstun. Alpha Counters wouldn’t really have made sense in Sf4 since auto block+mashing do the same job.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I think that strikes should beat throws if connecting on the same frame, just figure out a different way to make throws better like shorter tech window and/or slight frame advantage for whoever initiated the throw after a tech. Simple stuff like that could go a long way in making the game more offensive while also not making it too good.

Although apparently every character will have their own “v-trigger”, i’m wondering if there wll be another truly universal mechanic added in this game.

I suspect so. I hope cross cancels (alpha counters) come back. Those would be nice.

It depends in if there is blockstun. Alpha Counters wouldn’t really have made sense in Sf4 since auto block+mashing do the same job.

Thing is, they seem to be going the SFxT/SF3 route.

[Eternal]

I think that strikes should beat throws if connecting on the same frame, just figure out a different way to make throws better like shorter tech window and/or slight frame advantage for whoever initiated the throw after a tech. Simple stuff like that could go a long way in making the game more offensive while also not making it too good.

Although apparently every character will have their own “v-trigger”, i’m wondering if there wll be another truly universal mechanic added in this game.

I suspect so. I hope cross cancels (alpha counters) come back. Those would be nice.

It depends in if there is blockstun. Alpha Counters wouldn’t really have made sense in Sf4 since auto block+mashing do the same job.

Alpha has autoblock. Only SF game without it is SF3

[Frost]

One improvement I’ve recently been thinking about is the proper implementation of a GOOD ranking system online. All is well when the offline crowd is catered to through the community, but in SF4 they did a horrible job at supporting online warriors like myself.

For instance last night I jumped online to get a few matches in while I took a break from Xenoverse, my record for the night was somewhere around 10-4, but I ended up taking a loss in points due to the terrible system SF4 has. A) You can’t see the opposing players PP before accepting the match B ) If you’re fighting a constant wave of 1000PP players, good luck hitting that A+ Cody Froztey you scrublord C) Maintaining PP and continuing to gain it anywhere around 2500-3000 is a chore, and quite difficult if you run into one of those godlike 0PP/0BP players.

Really hoping for a nice system in SF5, something that rewards you for doing well and maintaining a nice record without patting you on the back a little too much. I had an idea for something I thought of and I wanted to share.

Character levels - the beginning level for each character is 1 at 0EXP. As you level up each individual character(For instance me with Cody) you gain aesthetical changes for that character. Oh you wanted to play as Cody unchained? Reach level 80 and we’ll give you the ability to play with him without cuffs. Oh you wanted CLEAN Ryu gi? Reach level 20 and it’s yours. Oh you wanted half naked Chun? Reach level 99 and we’ll allow you to jerk it to your favourite pixelated thick Asian.

Jokes aside, I think a reward system for playing each character would add life to the game and help players feel unique in their character choice. I’d also advocate that ranked player disallows the use of custom outfits due to the competitive nature of that mode and how some items may offer advantages to one player(See Blanka’s broken SF4 alternate as reference to this)

So, thoughts on this? It’s more of a Tekken thing but I think Street Fighter could benefit from it.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I’m not too hell bent on the ranking system. Obviously a good one is nice but for me its not a HUGE deal. Though a lvl up system where you get stuff like extra costumes and the like would be nice. So say (if there is content unlocked via story mode) stuff via online unlock…unlocks extra stuff. Because honestly lvling up just for the sake of lvling up to me is just so “whatever”. The reward idea is good though.

I also just remembered I wonder how they plan to deal with the vortex issues they had in SF4. In SFxT vortexes were not near as bad as in SF4. Because if the only option is to get up in the same spot (ala SF4) then vortexes will still be apparent easily without the threat of a roll or something to demaeur someone.

The good news is that unblockables won’t be back though.

[Screw_Tiers]

One improvement I’ve recently been thinking about is the proper implementation of a GOOD ranking system online.

I’m going to add something. Just going to quote myself from another thread.

[quote=“Screw_Tiers, post:150, topic:171474”]

Get rid of the ability for players to change the timer and the number of rounds in ranked mode. Seriously, what’s the point of this? I find it stupid that someone can make a 3/5 game with a 30 second timer or a one round game. It piss me off because I’m here trying to get serious matches (I REALLY shouldn’t be saying that) but an idiot is dicking around just to earn some points or some easy wins. Though, it doesn’t happen that often, but consider it Capcom.

[blufang]

I think a big thing that is necessary is true blind online. You could see connection and that is it. When you pick characters they can’t see who you pick and vice versa until both have made their choices.

[Pro_Marshmallo]

I think a big thing that is necessary is true blind online. You could see connection and that is it. When you pick characters they can’t see who you pick and vice versa until both have made their choices.

So you want… USF4’s matchmaking structure. The only thing that would be different was not being able to see your opponent before you select Ultra and SF5 might not have that kind of an option since SF4 didn’t at launch.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I think a big thing that is necessary is true blind online. You could see connection and that is it. When you pick characters they can’t see who you pick and vice versa until both have made their choices.

So you want… USF4’s matchmaking structure. The only thing that would be different was not being able to see your opponent before you select Ultra and SF5 might not have that kind of an option since SF4 didn’t at launch.

Different game, different rules, different things.

[Eternal]

I think a big thing that is necessary is true blind online. You could see connection and that is it. When you pick characters they can’t see who you pick and vice versa until both have made their choices.

So you want… USF4’s matchmaking structure. The only thing that would be different was not being able to see your opponent before you select Ultra and SF5 might not have that kind of an option since SF4 didn’t at launch.

I think a big thing that is necessary is true blind online. You could see connection and that is it. When you pick characters they can’t see who you pick and vice versa until both have made their choices.

So you want… USF4’s matchmaking structure. The only thing that would be different was not being able to see your opponent before you select Ultra and SF5 might not have that kind of an option since SF4 didn’t at launch.

Different game, different rules, different things.

AFAIK most modern fighting games have blind pick online as the ONLY option. You can see your opponents connection and their name and that’s it. You never see the opponents character choice until it’s time to pick an ultra, by that time both players are locked in and can’t back out of character choice. Allowing ultra choice makes sense though, even in tournaments they don’t lock you to ultra during a blind pick just character. Though you are locked to ultra if you win a match and the opponent goes to character select.

If SF5 doesn’t have a super / ultra selection like SSF4 then it’ll be a blind pick just like SFxT and tons of other FGs. I dunno exactly what blufang is requesting since that is already SOP and has been for quite some time.

It is important to keep the ability to see the opponents name though for trouble makers who you want to kick from your room (like a lag switcher, rage quiter, or someone who just joins and goes AFK), or if you are trying to play against a specific group of people in an unranked match.

[Frost]

I’m not too hell bent on the ranking system. Obviously a good one is nice but for me its not a HUGE deal. Though a lvl up system where you get stuff like extra costumes and the like would be nice. So say (if there is content unlocked via story mode) stuff via online unlock…unlocks extra stuff. Because honestly lvling up just for the sake of lvling up to me is just so “whatever”. The reward idea is good though.

I also just remembered I wonder how they plan to deal with the vortex issues they had in SF4. In SFxT vortexes were not near as bad as in SF4. Because if the only option is to get up in the same spot (ala SF4) then vortexes will still be apparent easily without the threat of a roll or something to demaeur someone.

The good news is that unblockables won’t be back though.

I’m hell bent on them creating something that keeps players wanting to go back, SF4 online is mainly a training ground for offline play which is all fine and dandy, but some players like me don’t have an offline scene to attend.

Also, how’d you know unblockables aren’t going to be present?

[FengShuiEnergy]

I’m not too hell bent on the ranking system. Obviously a good one is nice but for me its not a HUGE deal. Though a lvl up system where you get stuff like extra costumes and the like would be nice. So say (if there is content unlocked via story mode) stuff via online unlock…unlocks extra stuff. Because honestly lvling up just for the sake of lvling up to me is just so “whatever”. The reward idea is good though.

I also just remembered I wonder how they plan to deal with the vortex issues they had in SF4. In SFxT vortexes were not near as bad as in SF4. Because if the only option is to get up in the same spot (ala SF4) then vortexes will still be apparent easily without the threat of a roll or something to demaeur someone.

The good news is that unblockables won’t be back though.

I’m hell bent on them creating something that keeps players wanting to go back, SF4 online is mainly a training ground for offline play which is all fine and dandy, but some players like me don’t have an offline scene to attend.

Also, how’d you know unblockables aren’t going to be present?

Fair enough. I have an offline scene (but they just want to play USF4 though with 5 coming out hopefully everyone switches to that and Ill attend more).

As for unblockables. I mean by the “unblockables” aka 1f blocks. Not actual unblockables unblockables the derpy kind. If they go the SFxT route where hitboxes were universal-ed it shouldn’t be a problem in 5 to replicate.

[blufang]

For lobbies it is fine to see players’ names. For ranked you shouldn’t see their name at all, until the character select screen. Otherwise people can cherrypick their opponents, or avoid someone they don’t want to face, etc. It makes people pussies.

In tournaments you don’t get to pick and choose, in arcades you don’t either (winner stays and you face all challengers). So it is stupid you should be able to in ranked.

[Pro_Marshmallo]

For lobbies it is fine to see players’ names. For ranked you shouldn’t see their name at all, until the character select screen. Otherwise people can cherrypick their opponents, or avoid someone they don’t want to face, etc. It makes people pussies.

The thing is that kind of system where you can’t see player name until after a match puts far too little choice in the hands of those few who throttle their connection in an attempt to throw off the other player. It also allows a player not have to play far outside their league if the matchmaking system is less than good. There is literally no valid reason not to allow players to filter matches themselves by having the option to not start a game.

[Darklightjg1]

Yeah unstable connections or people who actually cheat with a lag switch kind of warrants being able to know who you are going to play. You don’t have to worry about that particular thing offline as much because if you catch them cheating they would just get DQed.

There’s also a guy who idles on 3SOE all day and pretty much never readies up, so simply knowing his gamertag, so that you can exit immediately when you see it, saves a lot of time.

If some people weren’t assholes who exploit the system in this way, this wouldn’t be an issue, but I find it necessary to keep from driving the normal players up the wall.