Also getting hit by a super early in the round gives a the option for v gauge since it’ll be filled faster from the damage. If u wait towards the end and land it it’ll give u a chance to build meter for second round without giving the opportunity for them to come back with v gauge.
I think slowing it down by making the players cautious is a better idea than limiting damage options for some characters without meter or v gauge. .
Also, it lets meter-dependent characters have something to work with from the start. Starting with nothing as Nash/Dhalsim makes the first 10 seconds vs someone with strong meterless options like Karin/Vega seems pretty lopsided. 1 EX bar is fine; a full super would make Bison, Cammy, Dhalsim, and others way too strong.
I don’t mind health scaling per se–I love ST and it has a similar effect–but I can’t help but think that the audience Capcom seemingly wants would find it misleading when attacks that seem like they should KO don’t. Like, if you want players to stay alive longer…
…just do that and remove any ambiguity. Works fine in Virtua Fighter and Tekken.
It’s gonna make some matchups way harder. The supers in this game are more akin to 3rd Strike than anything in the Alpha series. Imagine 3S Chun having full stock at the start. It’d be a worse matchup than it already is since so much of that matchup is getting stuff done before she gets meter. While we haven’t seen anything like SA2 Chun, we still have characters like Cammy who basically only save meter for CA and can shut down so much with it (especially how almost everything she does combos into it).
But if everyone has a meter and there are deficits in balance when both have full bar that shouldn’t be what’s lopsided - it’s the character itself which is a whole other topic. Full bar start but no v gauge will favor the better player more. If they land super they still have to deal with incoming v trigger which the player has to know how to use to be effective. So you gotta decide when to spend that meter, which would add depth - which is what I feel what people think is lacking with sfv being so bare bones and heavily reliant on footsies.
someone mentioned if you have weaker normals already why not have that super to counter balance it from the start? The character with the the better pokes will be chipping away at them a whole lot more while they struggle to stay alive long enough to v trigger, let alone build a bar for ex. If the better player uses their characters advantages on top of blowing a meter it’ll still favor the bad match up if they waited to use there bar after the opponent spent there’s.
Everyone’s super does atleast 40% and I don’t see anyone in current cast without a reliable way to confirm super so this isn’t what’s unbalanced. If two characters sitting at full bar are unbalanced then it falls on the match up properties. Ex moves serve more of a purpose to supplement offense/defense that’s lacking for more than a few characters. You might think the stronger folks will have an advantage but both players having the same option from the start actually balances things in a way. It skews the fight more in favor to the better player. This gives the weaker character in the match up a damage choice if they open the opponent up where they didn’t have one while folks who don’t utilize meter as there go to for damage and control a much smaller boost. blow through Meter first round incorrectly it’ll dictate the rest of the whole match- probably the same for any game. Using meter without amounting some kind of workable offense after it you’ll just be punished by limited options.
I think the back and forth meta would be interesting because the v gauge mechanic from damage still falls in the player’s responsibility to use to make a come back it’s not guaranteed. And if they get blasted by a super and get their v gauge full while still holding onto a bar then that’s just a mistake on the opponent for landing super too early in the round.
Look at Karin versus Ryu. Does Karin need a full bar to harass him atm in the game? No but the added options to land super as supposed to already being able to land damage isn’t an addition but Just a little option for Karin. Also consider it doesn’t put her over him anymore than she already is in the match up. Ryu would gain so much more in comparison from this with ex hado being able to correctly zone her, but it’s limited to only three. In the mean time between those three exs the player must supplement ways to regain bar but the task should be easier since if used sparingly it’ll be an ex away from full if they are pacing the fight right. If the player can’t capitalize from the knock down from exs or use the threat of super properly then that’s the players fault not an issue with the character.
I don’t see how it helps the weaker character in general. Not when there are match ups that become worse when one character has meter.
Well then can you explain what characters become that much better with full meter? Cus I don’t see a big deal with Karin the only thing she has for ex that’s useful is her uppercut. Every other ex for her just tacks on extra damage and doesn’t add to her gameplay. Oh wait crumple state shoulder but thats probably it.
Karin gets 65 damage off if 1 EX bar in neutral and a bit more in the corner but does lose positioning midscreen compared to a lower damage combo. Bison gets ~70 and better positioning. Vega doesn’t get that much more damage (maybe 30?) but gets a lot better positioning. Ken gets very little in terms of combos but it does let him hitconfirm easily into VTC. Ryu gets safe pokes, R.Mika gets to finish some jab combos that would otherwise fail, Birdie gets VTC combos, Cammy gets nothing, Nash gets done VTC combos he’d otherwise not have I think, Chun gets safe 2 in 1s, Rashid gets a ton of damage, no clue on Laura.
So for 1 EX bar the big winners are Karin, Rashid, and Bison. Other characters can get a lot off of a VTC or to make moves safe.
However, when it comes to neutral, different characters get different value from 1 bar. Karin doesn’t really use it while EX command throws from R.Mika can scoop decently well or how Ken’s EX DP can punish everything.
Ryu-EX Hadoken is a fairly good space control tool and EX Tatsu is good in corner combos; Super only seems worth it in VT
Chun-Generally prefers super over EX moves, but EX SBK is her best reversal without losing VT, and I think EX legs is safe
Nash-His super is pretty good, but his EX moves give him an actual reversal and better space control
Bison-EX moves include a reversal, safe on block moves, and a projectile. Super is still one of the best in the game.
Cammy-Really good super, but I don’t think she gains much from EX unless only EX Cannon Spike is invincible. Her EX dive is nice though.
Birdie-I don’t know the frames on EX rush/TAP, but I don’t think he gets much from meter other than damage from what I remember
Ken-EX DP is pretty good in this game, and air EX Tatsu is a new tool for him. Super is average.
Necalli-Does meter give him anything other than damage? I haven’t seen a utilitarian/defensive use for his EX moves that he doesn’t get meterless.
Vega-He seems pretty good without meter. Like Necalli, meter doesn’t open up too many new options for him.
Mika-Does she get anything good? I can’t tell much about her either, but nothing looks significantly better.
Rashid-EX gives him confirms from farther away, but his Super is a good complement to his moveset
Karin-Her EX moves are passable, but I feel she is better off comboing into Super during VT
Zangief-EX Command grab combos are really cool, but not terribly effective from what I’ve seen. His super isn’t much to write home about either.
Laura-She becomes WAY harder to keep out with meter. Her super is another grab super, but it works more for her because her regular grabs are weaker.
Dhalsim- EX Yoga Fire is his best horizontal option and adds a lot to him. His super is probably better than we give it credit for, but it isn’t Yoga Catastrophe.
no, v-skills shouldn’t build that much v-gauge because it’d make a few characters broken. Namely Ryu, Birdie, Laura, Zangief, Nash (there are a few ways to combo into his v-skill), Bison, Dhalsim and Cammy. Plus it would grind the matches to a halt with basically everyone having v-reversals at all time.
I sincerely hope capcom never does a street fighter beta again. People getting mad at unfinished systems and experimental ideas.
Imagine if people had the change to play a SSF4 beta and saw how good Dee Jay was. And he was amazing. His ex-sobat crumpled on hit allowing for free ultras and free anything. Then imagine the outrage of getting the Dee Jay we currently have.
The parry V-Skills are good an a vacuum, but intelligent players play around them so you never see them. Because of that, I think 1/5 for Ryu, Bison, and Zangief is OK. Cammy’s V-Skill is kind of bad because it requires too much time to set up, and Hooligan already cross-ups better. I haven’t seen a combo into Nash’s V-Skill that is useful, and Laura’s V-Skill is so bad they had to give it Crush Counter properties. Dhalsim’s is the only one I think should build 1/7 a bar, and is also the most utilitarian V-Skill in the game so far. So this change might require slight nerfs to some V-Skills to compensate, but all of the currently bad ones will have more use.
And I call bullshit on that Dee Jay example; he was mid (arguably low) and pretty fair when introduced. People are mad because everyone around his level got better when he got absolutely nothing. And the EX Sobat would have been just fine in USF4, where the 5 new characters can do normal xx EX, Ultra or similar.
-Rolento: cr.MK, EX Patriot, Ultra 1
-Elena: cr.MP, EX Lynx Tail, Ultra 1
-Poison: cr.MK, EX Whip of Love (full rekka), Ultra 1
-Hugo: Ultra Throw, Ultra 2 (lol)
-Decapre: EX Scramble, dive kick, cl.MP xx HK, Ultra 2
Yeah Dee Jay really needed something different to stay competitive. Like he has a good set of normals, but so does pretty much everybody. I remember when Dee Jay was first announced and his EX sobat caused a crumple state, but that got taken out because it was too powerful. I’m pretty sure he could do a MK/HK sobat RFC now in Ultra but you never see that because there’s so few Dee Jays and they all seem to play him like it’s AE2012 still. It makes sense, because landing those sobats on hit is less likely than using meter for other things. I definitely don’t think that Dee Jay is low tier though.
Cammy with full meter shuts down Ryu, period. She already does so without it from mid screen (better normals, damage, etc.). With meter, that range just extends to nearly full screen. More importantly, there’s nothing Ryu can do to make Cammy spend meter since she doesn’t really need EX in that match up.
I wish I knew how much v gauge was built from getting hit by super. I’d have to say if you got near full or a whole gauge from it, it might be worth it if you got v trigger since the opponent will be on empty after landing it and no v trigger.
Necalli gets cr lk,cr lp ex stomp. Can’t combo into normal stomps from lights.
Ahem…second…strongest. 
From what I have heard they are also aiming for homogenizing hurtboxes this time around, which would be an utterly stupid thing to do.
So you want SFIV with faster walk speeds and a juggle system… Got it
All these SFIV players gotta learn how to play Street Fighter like we used to.
Pretty much, yeah (preferably minus autoblock and dp mashing). And you want Mario Party with Street Fighter characters. Not my cup of tea.
I have no idea what any of that means.