I just watched a video with Kens V Reversal. Looks like it recovers about 30 percent of the stun gauge. So if you were almost stunned your chances of getting stunned are still pretty high if you get hit again immediately.
We’ll see how that plays out. Considering how strong I feel the V Triggers are if people are finally blowing V Gauge on V Reversals to get rid of a 1/3 of their stun then that’s not too bad a trade off. Especially since they seem to be toning down the amount of V gauge you get from v skills. Ill trade them recovering stun to be farther away from V Trigger.
This is an element I wish Killer Instinct had instead of instincts being inevitable outside of one character that can steal them from everyone else
Throws simply do not work in SF4. It’s actually sad, because rather than actually examine and figure out why, capcom had listened to the influx of new players complaining about crouch techs when that isn’t the problem. Every other game from ST onwards had crouch teching, yet throws were never a complaint in those games. I could probably write a 5 page paper on this, but to keep it short: sf4 had the problem of slow walk speed, gimped normals, low pushback on normals and the almost nonexistent throw invulnerability on wake up. All of that combined into a weak throw game in sf4, where the best option at all times as to crouch tech. Now compare that to older games where you’re able to bait a lot more, meaty attacks give you different advantages, faster walk speed etc.
Simply put, you cannot throw someone in SF4. Throws work in ST, alpha, sf3, cvs and sfxt. The offense in those games give you a reason to not try to tech, even when you know a throw is coming a lot of times you just eat the throw damage rather than risk the hit. Right now, SFV is in a weird place where throws are strong because individual normals are strong but it still has the weird sf4 no pushback issue. In fact, increasing the throw range will have a side effect that I know most people aren’t thinking about. An errant crouch tech will result in the defender landing a throw when the shouldn’t have. So yea, capcom needs to keep throws how they currently work in SFV. They actually work (you can successfully throw someone). Personally, I would get rid of the “stand up throw” when trying to crouch tech, but its seems to not be causing too many problems as it is now. Like I said I could write lots about this but I’ll just leave it short and sweet.
Yeah throws were another weird thing. They only really worked for vortex characters since if you somehow landed one, you finally could get a big reward off the hard knockdown. Another element of having to create something else people don’t like to deal with a fundamental game issue. Guile or Bison if they could ever throw you didn’t mean much when they could actually threaten you with throws in older games.
That’s what I figured also. You didn’t want situations where people can accidentally throw you on defense because throw ranges were naturally too large. Thats why I liked the kara throws since they allowed you to extend range while most likely still not having to worry about that issue on defense.
That’s one of the best reasons to have large throw ranges. It gives more options to both the attacker AND the defender, and makes the throw game much more complex without any artificial bandaids like crouch tech. The defender can now possibly throw the attacker for trying to walk away from stuff like defensive jab, while the attacker can do the same if the defender is trying to hard to block from a farther range. Longer throw range would also have the effect of making the CH meta even more apparent, since defensive throw would be a better option (thus used more often), you can bait it and hit them with a beefy combo since throw whiff is now a CH state. THIS is the way you make the game more active, by implementing simple, balanced things that are equally effective for both parties.
If they really wanted a difference in throws they could do a number of things. They won’t do any of these but…
Throws done when holding forward could have greater range or throws done when standing have a greater range.
There are all sorts of different ways to solve those kinds of things.
Also obviously you can throw people in 4 and it happens but I don’t think it’s really as prevalent as some other SF series.
In 3S parry makes throw very valuable and parry combined with jab coming out instead of short makes crouchtech generally a bad bad idea.
It’s also possible the designers don’t want throw to be super common. The game seems to lean that direction with a considerable payoff if you land one, stun is pretty massive. In 3S Ryu’s throw does 8 dots of stun and he has 64 dots in his stun gauge. So it’s 8 throws to stun except stun is always going down in 3S unlike 5. In 5 I think throws do 200 stun and average stun resistance is 1000? That’s only 5 throws and stun does not recover while blocking making tic throws pretty huge. So they might be somewhat lacking in the setup, but the payout is big.
I feel like the solution there is to increase forward throw range, not to have karas. Even if you had to tie they’re ranges together I don’t know why having a large throw range of a bad idea, as they’re still making themselves vulnerable by pressing throw; you should get chucked if you’re blocking or doing a delayed frametrap
As for throws, what made them scary was when a character had either a hopkick or a divekick because suddenly you were blowing up crouchtechs.
If we’re talking solely on rewards off a throw I disagree. SFIV is way up there due to untechable knockdowns and how offense developed to account for the huge reversal windows + escape options (dreaded vortex). Basically if you have ever been back thrown by Cammy or forward thrown by Akuma you know what I mean. It’s not uncommon even for people to go for a throw in the corner after a focus crumple or stun (with minimal scaling) solely on the setups you reap off it.
I don’t think throw whiff is CH. Be cool if it was.
I kind of feel that they’re going for a “this is your hit confirm medium, this is your frametrap/punish heavy, everything else are pokes” design in SFV.
Ryu: St.mp, F.hp
Chun: St.mp, B.hp
Bison: St.mp, St.hk
Nash: Cr.mp, Cr.hp (he also had target combos to confirm)
Birdie: Cr.LP, St.mp (his buttons basically give you a step up in terms of combo damage)
Cammy: St.mp, F.hk (cr.mp also works as a confirm point blank)
For the characters not in the beta
Ken: cr.mp, St.hp
Necalli: cr.mp, St.hp (not sure in the former)
I haven’t watched enough Vega or R.Mika to comment there
I wasn’t talking about the reward because it’s huge in SF4 for some characters. I was pretty vague. I meant they aren’t necessarily as core a part of pressuring as in some others. I know 3S best and throw is a very important and often used part of offense for every single character. In 4 I never got that feeling about them. So with 5 I don’t know what role the intend for throw, is it meant to be difficult to land but with a large payoff or is it meant to be a constant part of offense more like 3S. Due to the amount of stun I can’t imagine they want them to be as common as 3S.
Throw whiff has got to be counter-hit. It wouldn’t even make sense if it wasn’t. Whiff needs to be a big punish situation so that people are late teching not just guessing.
Throws are back to being solid because they are solid themselves. You don’t have to have character specific setups and do things that piss people off to make them good after lol.
Pretty sure at this time I heard only the active frames of throw can be counter hit.
Oh I just assumed people meant whiff as in just the whole throw.
Only active? Wouldn’t that be like 1 frame? Or do you mean startup + active but not recovery… Still would be weird.