Ok I might be in denial but I guess so is Combofiend caues he switched to Oni as well and obviously won the match on footies and bang and chip zoning with normals. I’m pretty sure this is just combofiend being combofiend and not really a reflection on the matchup but it just goes to show how bad of tunnel vision you can get if you limit your view on a character based on how you choose to play the character.
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/294536132 first match is at 1:25 mins
This.
This.
This.
This.
To second Raiden’s statements, until you fully master Oni’s normals, you won’t get very far. I’ve spent a heck of alot of time in training mode working on normals. Personally, I even like to do “1-button challenges” (or whatever you like to call it) to try and discover new uses for his normal set. Try doing a first to five set with a good player in your friend list and only use FP or any other one/s you want to explore. You’ll be suprised with what you find out. But all that basically to say personally I can vouch for the above comment. I’ve taken a very similar if not identical approach to the Oni concept. And so far at this stage in the game, it’s been very beneficial. I hope everyone else jumps on the wagon with the Oni normal set.
I have no problem playing his footsies I am not totally free, just that I am asking for Improved specials and normals for Oni. Talking about his normals it looses to Ryu / Kens Cr.mk they just simply stick to this forcing you to use f+hp and at that range they can bait it with fa or either a n.jump, it is not impossible to play footsie with them however it is inferior to what they can do plus if Ryu does F+hp no matter what I press i’ll get punished for pressing any button while Ken’s step kick is far more superior compared Oni’s F+mk.
Now as for Akuma F+Hk will beat each and every footsie of Oni’s except st.mk which makes me vulnerable to his cr HK sweep into demon flip mixups and it is not impossible to avoid and try to stay alive with footsie but its definitely an uphill battle against those 3 because they have better footsies and FA compared to Oni. I would like not to rely on specials but it is obviously not good enough to compete against many, st lp will whiff on crouching shoto’s. As far as I’m concerned Oni is equal to Guy on Tier standpoint which is B tier right now. To me Oni needs more love and buffs on the upcoming 2012AE patch.
Yes, Oni’s normals are pretty damned good. Only complaints I have are with his cr.mk and f.mk. The first is too short range and the second is just slightly too slow. Oni has his own swag going on though and overall it works out.
I find that I rarely use Oni’s cr.forward. Neither do I find myself poking with f.forward. It’s better for counterhits rather than just sticking it out there.
While he does have very good normals overall, most of his signature normals seem better than they really are, unfortunately :\
F+HP is far slower than it appears to be, in both startup and recovery-- it can be reversal punished ON BLOCK by Flash Kick, EX Shoryukens (both 3f and 5f), Ryu Super, etc… and its projectile property can rarely be used because it’s too slow to react to fireballs with. Worse still, the projectile property makes it a terrible poke against people with projectile immune moves (Balrog’s turn punch, etc.).
F+MK also starts up much slower than it appears to, and can be easily beaten on reaction by just about any decent normal (crouch jab, crouch strong, etc.)
Crouch MK is pretty poor range and hitbox shrink compared to similar shoto moves.
Standing LK is great but it has poor damage so even while playing footsies with it you will lose all of your work for the last several moves to one decent poke from your opponent.
His crouching jab and crouching strong do have good range, which is nice. Standing MK is awesome. Crouching fierce is a very good anti-air but it’s not as good as Sakura’s, for instance.
TC1 whiffing on crouch is pretty unfortunate as well :\
This is a good reference on how bad it will get against a mashing Ryu and also against a good Bison.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/this-is-your-demise-oni-high-level-video-thread/123563page-7
Footsies aren’t dependable when opponents tools are much better, specials should be a lot safer allowing counter attack opportunities.
Topic is here: ONI version 2012 Changes
1. You want Oni to have a step kick as good as Ken’s and at the same time have the slashes and stomps at your disposal? That’s just asking for way too much. Just look at what ken does with it.
Ken needs that stepkick more than anything else, Oni doesn’t, because he has that f.hp. F.HP and c.MK are normals that compliment each other. One is expected and the other is safe.
2. Asking for more safe moves? An attack that dodges attacks and is safe? You want a standard shoto with extra specials. If ryu’s slight mk nerf caused a lot of issues, what would happen if ryu or ken got demon-stomps and slashes?
3. Gouken has that sweep because he has(and needs those) wake-up set-ups. Oni has some gimmicks after knockdowns, but they come from reads and guesses. Reads and guesses that could easily backfire.
I’d rather be chipping away at standing opponents than taking a risk on someone’s wake-up. And when i’m ready to take a risk, Oni has specials that give him the chance at scoring easy damage.
4. Zoning with just f.hp and fireballs? Complete Fail. Oki with Oni? Risky… fun, but risky.
If you’re getting caught with FA’s, it’s because you’re predictable and/or spamming. They want that f.hp, and you just give it to them? Random FA-ing? ex-fireballs or tatsu’s will break that glass
In the end, you’re just asking for a shoto with Oni’s specials. A character that has a safe low, mid, and high attack. A rush-down low health Oni would be awesome, but capcom wouldn’t give us that.
You really shouldn’t worry too much about Oni. In fact. I believe a standard shoto would fit your desired playstyle.
Most of that looks absurd except for fixing b.mp. The c.rh change request is just pure whining.
Hey guys, I’ve decided that oni’s regular wake up slash mixups are really dumb and not worth it, plus its almost impossible to land an EX slash raw. So I figured I needed to mix ups his mixups. I started doing b.mp on someone’s wake up and then cancel it into whatever you want. lk, hk, ex slash or even ex stomp. It adds an extra guessing game to their wake up.
Also Oni’s changes for 2012 are fair, also they aren’t done yet, they haven’t started beta testing yet so we’ll find out.
*** 1***. Asking too much? bet you didn’t know F+HP blocked can be punished by EX SRK or Flash Kick and F+MK can be stuffed out before the start-up just look at what Oni does with it. Ken F+MK can be used to perfectly spaced out any attempt on counter attack pokes from his opponent while he sets it up for another Kara Throw.
2. Asking for more safe moves, An attack that dodges attacks from start-up and its safe by spending a meter? WHY NOT? go complain about EX Makoto’s Oroshi or C.Vipers EX Burning Kick then, Is Oni even your main???,if Yes you wont be even be saying this because he doesn’t have a safe way like RYU having to FADC his Wake up SRK to get out of trouble, untechable knockdown setups coupled with OS! and Oni is Done!!. hear me huh? please think twice before you post, you’re absurd!. Hey even Dan has SRK FADC and a better backdash.
3. Clearly you never played Oni on high level, Oni Gimmicks never once worked they block punishes slash 9 out 10 even at meaty range during wake up and they wake up DP or FA lvl1 Stomp on reaction or just Jab me out, if I am too far , Just because you do not have the reaction or muscle memory to Punish Oni’s Gimmicks doesn’t make him OK. Once again high level players do not read they see the cross coming at meaty range aka point blank. I’ve played with ACE EI RIN ,AOI momo and Zangitan I know it better.
4. Fireball can be countered by simple reaction against low jump arc characters like Zangief / Vega / Adon / or characters with a deep Aerial attack like Cody’s F.jump + HK and Sakura’s F.jump + Hk.
Go tell Wildcats , Tokido and Eita that Oni is ok, and Tokido personally says Oni sux , If he would rate Yun and Yang 9/10 then Oni would be 3/10 as a viable character that is what he says ok?. Well I am really tired of addressing out Oni’s problem to people that I don’t know, so much for hopes on having a more competitive Oni. IMO, If the changes are like what they are listed then Oni will be a low tier character at most B- tier while most of the cast will be at A- to A+ tier base on the current announced changes on the patch notes 2012ae.
Hey guys, Combofiend plays Oni now. We finally get to see some good Oni shit coming soon. Oni won’t be bad in 2012 just like he isn’t bad now. If you think he’s bad then I’m sorry but you’re just being silly. No character is bad in this game, just work on how to play them, thats all you have to do. If you don’t like them and think they’re ass? Good for you, don’t bring it here.
Combofiend plays Oni now:
Yes more vids
Oni won’t be bad in 2012 just like he isn’t bad now:
Not so bad but still bad
If you think he’s bad then I’m sorry but you’re just being silly:
Whatever that makes you happy
No character is bad in this game:
Wrong answer, everyone plays their respective character to the fullest and live with their weaknesses. That doesn’t mean the car doesn’t need upgrade but only the driver does.
If you don’t like them and think they’re ass? Good for you, don’t bring it here:
Just bad, not ass. Well, I apologize for the negativity if that offends you.
Combofiend looked very restricted by Oni on the last Wednesday Night Fights stream. He’s obviously a great player but I saw him having a hard time with opponents that he usually just rolls over.
Maybe he was just testing him out? I’m not sure, but he got punished in many of the trademark ways that Oni often does, and it wasn’t pretty. I didn’t feel like he was gaining anything from playing as Oni, but maybe he’s still working on it. For now, for me, it just looked like further confirmation of what I already think of Oni.
Remember I said Oni is same as Guy tier?, yea Combofiend did not do well with Guy and Oni wouldn’t be much good for him either he needs to go back to abel. Being a pro Oni isn’t easy, the character’s easy to handle but the setup sux against most match-ups. The learning curve for Oni will be just like learning Gouken and mostly to survive being rolled over. If he can endure the losses he might be able to shine with him.
he made top 32 at evo with guy?
If that is enough to justify the characters viability? if so, then he will be at top 16 using Cammy or Abel. Guy has too much weaknesses, I’ve played him quite a bit and mimic Kiryu Tsukimiya more or less know how Guy gets counter attacked, however Kiryu mostly losses to Akuma’s general and especially Tokido.
I don’t think Guy is anywhere near as bad as Oni, personally. I think Guy is reasonably viable, his pressure is a lot more legit than Oni’s gimmicky nonsense.
So Oni isn’t viable because you can’t rely on his gimmicky nonsense…gotcha. Oni is nowhere near as bad as you & EQ2000 are saying he is, he may not be winning majors anytime soon (along with 30 odd other characters) but you can compete with him if you put the work in. If you don’t want to put the work in & you’re looking for an easier win i’d suggest changing characters but coming into the Oni forums & constantly complaining about him is getting kind of annoying.
We don’t know right now if there are going to be more changes to Oni in AE2012 but if there aren’t i still think he’s under-explored at the moment & that the character has a lot of potential, it’s far too early to write him off IMO.
Youhei is the only Oni i’ve seen that plays him solidly, most of the time he’s not using big damage combo’s, Super meter or Ultra & he’s still winning. Oni is very much like Cody in as much as he can’t really zone or rushdown without thought, you have to play him intelligently by using all of his options not just rely on a few and expect them to net you wins.
Bottom line it’s too early to be this negative, but if you can’t help it there are 38 other characters to play & most people come here to improve their game not to be told that their character of choice is useless which Oni certainly isn’t IMO.
I don’t think Oni is useless, and what’s really “getting old” is people trying to act like it’s “too soon to tell” if Oni is bad. First of all, it absolutely isn’t. There has been more than enough time to verify this. Second, “bad” is pretty clearly a term relative to the game, it does not mean “worthless”. What it does mean is that, of the 38 other characters available, nearly every single one of them is a better choice than Oni. This is pretty indisputable at this point. Can you succeed with Oni? Yes. You can also succeed with T. Hawk, but it’s not very practical. This makes a character “bad”.
There’s no reason for you to get butthurt because people are discussing the truth of the situation at hand, which is that Oni is a severely underpowered character. I only even talk about it so much because I think he is such a COOL character and that he deserves more than he has. So stop being so hypocritical and bitching about bitching, especially when we’re not even bitching in the first place. We’re constructively discussing his weaknesses and coming up with possibilities for improvements, then suggesting them to Capcom.
Oni is BAD. He’s not worthless, but compared to everyone else that is available, he is one of the absolute worst choices that you could make when picking a character in this game. Again, this is fact, not opinion or whining.
I’m not prepared to debate this with you, you’re not going to get the changes you want so ultimately it’s just you bellyaching. I’m simply suggesting you learn to use the character as is (AE2012) or you move on, the forum is for help improving your Oni gameplay not for you and your buddies to piss and whine about how awful the character is.
It honestly sounds like you won’t be happy until you can pick Oni and win by simply pressing buttons or throwing shit out there.