I love you for saying that XD…
Yeah, it’s a little out of that topic.
Crappy PC?.. XD
(Yep. Didn’t even get remotely close. Incidentally, it is now “exactly” only a month until UMvC3 is released. Makes me wonder when they’ll off the last two characters.)
Fair enough. So long as you know that.
I really do wish there was another, more appropriate word to call the dumber “scrubs” who that wasn’t utterly generic and could only be used to describe the dregs of fighting game “world”/“community”. However, I’m not Yipes, so I can’t just spontaneously make up terms and have them stick, much less stick for years on end.
Very.
Well, that’s not fair. It’s more like “old and has very limited space”. It’s served me well, but it’s just not reliable or at good for an increase amount of things. [/completely off-topic.]
Viscant is by no means a bad player. However, I think it’s completely fine for people to complain about phoenix. They have a right to.
I don’t think anyone that plays this game seriously OR casually can tell me they honestly think phoenix is balanced. I’m not saying she’s instant wins, but you’re sure as hell going to have a much higher chance of winning if you have her on your team. I don’t care if you want to go and win your tournaments with hsien-ko or phoenix. What I think everyone can agree on is that a great game should always have balance. I’m not saying marvel isn’t a good game at all, but it sure as hell would be much better if it were more balanced than it currently is, which is basically why I personally look forward to umvc3. You go to any game where one character or weapon/ whatever it may be is obviously stronger than the others and it WILL be frowned upon. In some games it’s easier to deal with said variable than in others. People constantly ramble on about how people will eventually deal with phoenix over time, but it’s still completely obvious she’s far too strong.
Forgive me if you don’t agree with me on the idea that any game (competitive or casually played) should be enjoyable for both sides.
Some of the greatest games made have had fuck-all balance
(suddenly has an excuse to look for those Devastation videos)
Oh, good. We’re getting into a “discussion” about something as nebulous as “balance”. That will totally lead to a fruitful discussion that ends well and with all sides in agreement. Yep.
Sigh. It’s funny how, even if OP oversimplified the issue and was overaggressive about it, some people still seem to be missing the point entirely.
No one’s saying you can’t complain about Phoenix. (Or, at least, no one should be saying that.) Hell, I’m sure everyone in this thread has complained about her at point or another, even if they use and even if they like her.
However, there’s a really obvious difference between hating a character someone plays regularly and hating a player just because they use that character. Perhaps it would be even more obvious if I gave examples:
[LIST=1]
[]Hating the character a player uses: “Man, I hate Jean! She’s so lame! I wish Viscant would go back to his awesome Iron Man and leave that tramp on the select screen.” sulks
[]Hating the player for a character they use: “God, Viscant is such a skilless hack! Using Phoenix just proves that he has no skill and can’t win otherwise! I’m glad he lost!” continues to scream bloody murder like they’re being killed (to really catchy music)–if only
[/LIST]
That should be really obvious, but it seems like it keeps flying over people’s heads (and not just here). As tired and as bullshit as a phrase as it generally is, “don’t hate the player; hate the game” is rather applicable here because the system is at fault, not the fact that Viscant is an asshole (which he isn’t) or anything like that.
Again, no one is saying that, so please stop reiterating the obvious like it makes you the sole voice of reason. (You’d apparently be surprised about how many people seem to feel she’s an instant win regardless, though; those are generally the type of people this thread was addressing in the first place.)
This is, really, really arguable. In a perfect world, yes, a great game would have the most perfect and magical of balances and be playable forever. A game where every single last character is equally viable and everyone has fun all the time in a world where everyone always wins and there are always rainbows in the sky and no kittens or puppies are killed when you touch yourself at night.
This isn’t a perfect world, though, and that’s not just because it isn’t barren or because it’s filled with the fetid disease that is (most of) humanity. Disregarding my horrible misanthropy, the only way to achieve “balance” or any semblance of it in the real world is, after a certain point, to make every single character exactly the same. That’s not a great game. That’s not even a good one.
It’s part of the reason why even though SFIV is arguably the most balanced (series of) game(s) in the Street Fighter series, quite a few people dislike it (and generally only play because everyone else is). “Balance” (or the illusion of it or even the mere proximity to it) can very easily become boring, especially if you’re achieving that balance more by taking things away/making everyone “bad” or worse rather than giving people different but mostly equally viable things and such, where someone will still eventually be on top and another character will be at the bottom.
Now, I’m not one of those people who thinks nerfs are always only bad things that should never, under any circumstances, ever happen. However, I would much rather have nerfs be accompanied with buffs (those that deserve) or at least mostly target stuff that’s utterly stupid or relatively independent of skill rather than things that just stuff that’s merely overpowering, especially if it’s solely because (some) people complained about it and not because it’s actually detrimental to the game.
So, yeah, balance being a necessary or even desirable thing is rather arguable. Great games shouldn’t be broken, but they definitely don’t have to be “balanced”.[/rant]
Again, obvious, since that happens in every game, though it’s generally by the same type of people that the OP is addressing: people who don’t want to learn how to deal with things even if it’s legitimately possible.
“Far too strong”? That’s debatable; that just makes me think you’re calling her broken and she’s definitely not Ivan Ooze or anything. Overpowering? Definitely.
Even if she were “far too strong”, that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t been more ways found when it comes (or, rather, came) to dealing with her. She’s not invincible or anything. She “just” really has the system on her side, though she’s hardly the only character to benefit on that front; just the character who benefits from it the most. Being “far too strong” wouldn’t mean the solutions would have stopped being found for how to deal with her, especially since, again, the game hasn’t even been out a year yet and it will be dying literally in a month’s time.
You’re forgiven for trying to end on a faux moral point that implies anyone who doesn’t agree with you is automatically wrong on an issue that isn’t even remotely objective, especially since I doubt very many people enjoy losing (at least among the people this thread is addressing) and someone always loses.
So, yes, all is forgiven my son.
There’s a difference too between “Uses a really strong team but can use any part of it effectively and individually” (Like Viscant and F.Champs phoenix teams) and “Uses a really strong team but falls to goddamn pieces if they lose a gimmick”.
You can generally tell the people that are just crutching.
Phoenix is dumb. I’m not hating on Viscant or any phoenix players, but you gotta say a good phoenix team carries you a very long way.
“Why aren’t you playing phoenix then?”
I actually did for a while, just to try her out. But then I realized I liked working for my wins and dropped her.
Is 3d place a bad placing somehow now?
Again, i remember that he changed team on the combofiend fight, no where else…
So?
Apparently picking phoenix doesn’t make you a better player. Just a smarter player.
Cheers to being smart.
Is Justin Wong a scrub now? He’s popping off, lol.
Zero is cheaper than Phoenix. Discuss.
He takes way more work than XF3 Dark Phoenix does 
At least you can snap in Phoenix. You have to deal with that BS as soon as the round starts. That’s also why I hate Wolverine more than Phoenix.
I’m with you really, there are eviller (wow, spellcheck doesn’t pick that up?) teams than anything with Phoenix.
Salty Wong vs Saltford Kelly
Who is the saltiest?
Saltford Wong.
Is it possible to be that salty?
I’m not defending the people that call all phoenix players bad, if that’s the impression you were getting.
Fact remains that phoenix is far too good, especially with the minimal effort she requires.
I’m not saying it IS a perfect world or anything, but it’s obvious that any quality game should at least SEEM as if it were attempted to be made well. In my personal opinion, if a character is as obviously overpowering as someone like phoenix, and there is no way to promptly “fix” said character, they should be nerfed into unplayablity.Having characters like phoenix in the game is just bad for everyone.
And everyone that thinks a game shouldn’t be fun for both sides is a moron, sorry. Defeats the purpose of what games are made for.