I see some dumb shit in here. How are you going to bandwagon on tiers? If you know beforehand what character gives you the best chance of success at a game where the objective is to motherfucking win, why would you be ashamed of it? If one character is so good that he blows away your fundamentals, fuck you that’s the guy to play.
And there’s nothing “unfair” about using top-tier characters. You have the choice to use them, too. If you opt not to, the onus is on you and no one else. Hold your loss like a man.
I fee that like with Marvel 2, people will always be trying to find new teams and trying to make things work. Even Iron Man was picked up by Joker and is successful (to an extent).
So long as there’s a passion to try new things, I feel the game will relatively stay fresh for a good while.
That said, I feel the game might be a bit better if the damage levels were a bit lower… that or the hitstun was brought to marvel 2 standards.
Yeah the characters that are top in AE are top for very mediocre, unfun and boring reasons. Option selects and vortex are such mundane things to dominate a game, and its because the damage is horribly balanced in the game.
Characters like Guile/Sagat/Dhalsim/Chun etc simply dont do enough damage to compete. Their job is to keep you out and poke you to death and to do that they have to succesfully land like 20 pokes/anti airs/fireballs to complete their job whereas Akuma or Cammy only need one knockdown to complete their job.
If the top 5 have cheap stuff like vortexes off of one knockdown then Guile and Sagat and shit should have really abusable fireball traps that can do like 30% damage through chip so that if they achieve their goal of hitting someone with a fireball theyre properly rewarded. Ryu had a fireball trap in vanilla SFIV but they took it away. Rose had a fireball trap in Super but they took it away, along with her orbs ultra, just because anything to do with strong long range or projectile tactics is cheap according to casual players who capcom listen to.
That being said, the damage in UMVC3 still really needs to be adjusted, albeit on a character by character basis.
Because picking top tier =/= guaranteed to win? The disadvantages of picking top tiers are real, people are going to be a lot more familiar with the matchups and picking top tiers need not necessarily give you more wins. Picking top tier just because you want to win is a foolish thing to do, if you are good enough you should be able to win no matter what character you pick as long as you are 100% confident with your character and you have clear plans for dealing with any opponent.
The line I highlighted is what I have an issue with. I’m not making it seem as such, theresults are.* Strange, Morrigan*, and Vergil[1] are evidence that there can be more viable characters than the obvious ones. Heck, Even Justin Wong came 3rd with Iron Fist at Curleh Mustache 4, which was a week or two out from Evo.
And also, if people did have a good understanding of how each character works, why are people only realizing now that a character like Dr Strange could actually work? I think that statement only stands true for the characters who have received significant exposure, such as Doom. I would like to see more characters given the same chance (speaking of which I’m trying to turn up to tournies again myself, just freed up my schedule so I can see how far I can take Cap again lol)
I don’t have an issue with people’s characters selections. My problem is with people saying a character is rubbish, but when someone wins with them, they suddenly ‘realize’ that the character is actually good. The title of the thread and some of the posts imply that not only do people think that only a handful of the cast is viable, but those characters are the only ones worth using if you want to win. It was that sentiment that egged me on my little tirade lol. I just feel that there are more characters still to be discovered.
On a side note, I wasn’t really speaking in terms of tiers. Picking top-tiers doesn’t equate to a win, or even a good team, team trenchcoat being an example. And Zero’s still to win a major. A real major (no offense). Heck, even *Raaaaaay, Ray! [2] *won T13 with Ryu before dropping him.
[1] Though people became privy to Vergil relatively soon(er than the others), it was like a repeat in the views of Zero early in Vanilla. People made the same mistake twice.
[2] Sorry, completely irrelevant video, I just feel that’s how his name should be mentioned lol.
I hate to cherry pick things in posts, but I really have to come down on this part. There’s a reason not a ton of characters have good assists. It’s because not a ton of characters have moves period that would correlate to being good assists. Wolvie and Spidey? They don’t have bad assists just for the hell of it. They really have nothing in their moveset that would be that great of an assist short of upping the invul on Tornado Claw and Spider Sting.
Most of the characters that have 3 bad assists are characters that don’t have anything that really translates into a solid assist in their movesets. And how many characters in the game even have 3 truly bad assists? It’s honestly a much shorter list than you give credit for.
That’s what Capcom fighting games devolve to, anyway. I just don’t mind it if the overall engine is a blast to play. You can have a completely balanced game but if it is boring to play no one will give a shit.
Guys, everything is viable. Not everything is optimal. Yes, even the low tier characters are viable. Unless they’ve got some tech that is worthy of being called top tier, don’t expect them to win.
People play this game to win and they intend to with all the cheapness they can get. That is why we get to see the same top/high tier 10-15 (idk the exact number) characters because they offer all the good stuff unlike the low tiers who offer crap. It’s like asking why Storm over Magneto when Mags has EMD assist, Hyper Grav Loops, dat flight and other better stuff and Storm only has maybe Hail Storm DHC to brag about.
Besides, why bother being fair in a broken game like Marvel?
That definition is something to be ashamed of but only because it’s stupid reasoning. If you want to win, pick a top tier. No problems with that. Just picking the top tiers without knowing why they’re top tier and expecting them to be an “I win” button is just dumb.
Honestly, that’s where I think the whole “tier whore” stigma thing comes from. Newer players (Not saying you are one at all) hear “This character is top tier” and think “This character wins all of the time, so cheap, boo hoo” without really understanding what “top tier” means.
You seem to be mistaken “top players playing underrated characters” for “everyone is now playing underrated characters because top players are playing them”. You also missed the key to my response which was “infancy”. The main reason people thought Virgil sucked was because they didn’t know the proper strings to avoid being punished. Anyone interested in Morrigan knew about her fly cancels, but the execution needed to make a viable character is still unused now, for the same reasons. I’m not so sure what your fascination with Strange is. Spencer/Nova/Strange is not a Evo winning team. Justin wasn’t using Iron Fist at Evo. I’m pretty sure he realized that he wouldn’t get far relying on counter-hits and Akuma.
That wont make people flock the Cap/Strange.
People are entitled to their opinions, even if they’re wrong. Everyone is going to think a character sucks if it takes years to figure out how to make them viable in the current competitive scene. I don’t care of ChrisG picks up Jill and wins everything he goes to, I’m still going to think she’s ass. Most of the cast isn’t viable, because in a competitive setup they wont be able to do the things that would be viable if they were viable. This doesn’t necessarily stop people from playing these characters, but you shouldn’t blame people that think they’re not worth playing because of their faults.
It’s just how it is. People want to win, people will always take the easiest route to victory. It does not truly matter if a game is balanced or not because people STILL use the strongest character they could find. This still hold true KOFXIII, Vampire Savior, and almost any balanced game you could possibly think off.
Tier whoring in marvel isn’t the same other games. You aren’t tier whoring characters, you’re tier whoring the teams. As good as Viper and Zero are…you won’t see a team with both of them on it win a major. There are other cases like this. No one would put spencer and nova in their top 5 characters in the game and yet it’s been proven the Nova/Spencer/X formula is a top tier combination. Same with morrigan, she’s probably not even top 10 in the game. morrigan/doom on the other hand is a top tier combination.